Forums » Off-topic discussion » Learn me, Completely starting over a career at 35 1 2 3 4

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  Nov. 15, 2011 9:04 a.m. btp76 Reader

  Quick bio, I'm 35, married, wife makes right at $100k, two kids in private school.
  

  I've been in the car business since I was 15. I started turning wrenches and buying and selling on the side. I haven't had an employer since I was 20. I had a machine shop at 21. I've been just buying and selling for 12 or so years and narrowed my inventory down to just Chevrolet muscle cars. I made about $40k in 07.

  We all know what 08 was like. I now have no line of credit, close to $90k in business debt, about $50k in inventory and about $25k equity in a building I co-own. I'm furiously treading water and not getting ahead.
  

  I got my dealers finance license two years ago, but due to a combination of issues, I haven't noted out a single car. I know that's where all the money is in the business, but I'm perpetually so under capitalized, I don't know if I'll ever get a note lot off of the ground.

  My wife wants me to through in the towel, go to school, and get a job. I can definitely see the appeal of working from 9 to 5 and getting a steady paycheck, but, when it's worked well, I've loved what I do.
  

  What career path would you recommend for a guy like me. I am not a salesman. I like working with my hands. I like solving problems. I'm smart. I'd think some kind of mechanical engineering. I'm in Dallas, so there should be jobs out there.

  I feel I'm starting to ramble. Let the suggestions flow.

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  Nov. 15, 2011 9:13 a.m. Otto Maddox Dork

  In reply to btp76:

  First of all - good choice on the wife.

  Second of all - I suspect you are going to need a job with a lot of freedom. I wouild be looking more towards a trade than getting a traditional university education.

  Barba non facit philosophum

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  Nov. 15, 2011 9:13 a.m. nderwater SuperDork

  Interesting perspective - I find myself in the completely opposite situation.
  

  I'm your age and have held white collar, 9-5 jobs in the IT industry for 12 years. I have burned out and tried to walk away two (approaching three) times so far - but at my age, with a family and mortgage, the risk associated with starting over is just enormous. I would kill to be my own boss, to have my own business working in the auto trade or with my hands.

  Regarding your wife's advice, going back to school for an undergrad degree is a huge undertaking - four or five years carved out of your working life and tens of thousands of dollars in additional expenses. And then you will be competing with all the other (cheaper) recent college grads to enter your new field at nearly the bottom rung. Will you be okay with that at age 40?

  Auto photo blog: http://motomania.tumblr.com

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  Nov. 15, 2011 9:15 a.m. N Sperlo SuperDork

  I enjoy the same things and I choose not to work in the area. There is one serious question I have for you. Can you do what you love at the direction of another? I hope this question can help you narrow things down.

  - N. Sperlo -:-:- "Never take life seriously. No one ever gets out alive anyway." ~ ~ A strong tail wind can't hurt either...~~ K0HOF

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  Nov. 15, 2011 9:23 a.m. mtn SuperDork

  Go into the trades. With your background you would be highly employable in them. Getting an undergrad degree and finding an entry level job will take too much money, time, and effort to make it worth it IMHO.

  Anytime somebody tells you that vodka mixes well with anything, slide them a jar of mayonnaise and tell them to practice what they preach.

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  Nov. 15, 2011 9:26 a.m. trucke New Reader

  What about changing your business to a tuner shop? You still get to wrench on cars and 'hopefully' have customers pay you. If you go this route, make sure your focus on customers who have cash.

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  Nov. 15, 2011 9:28 a.m. stroker HalfDork

  I feel your pain to some degree. I used to be a restaurant franchisee and I really, really miss the autonomy and freedom of making the decisions to run the business. I chafed under the franchise restrictions. Unfortunately I wasn't much of a restaurant manager. When the chain was sold I got kicked to the curb.
  

  I am by no means a financial wiz. All I can tell you is that I read message boards whose comments are populated by people a lot smarter than me, and the herd is scared. Until we get things under control (nevermind recovering the economy) I'd be very concerned about that level of debt with so little income.
  

  Bottom line--I'd cash out everything I could to retire as much of that 90K as possible and (per the other posters above) to avoid exposure until the economy settles. I'd use the next couple of years try to do something more Vo-tech/Trade-like that you could use to springboard into a new business when the economy comes around. I'd certainly give something like welding classes a try, as skilled welders/plumbers/electricians are always necessary and the skill set transfers to a lot of different things. A undergraduate degree is always nice to have but I don't see it as necessary for a guy in your position and certainly not worth the investment of time/money in your situation.

  My $.02.

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  Nov. 15, 2011 9:30 a.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  A friend of a friend in the UK has been running his own garage business for a long time, got fed up with it and sold it on, then got a 9-5 job.

  Didn't take very long (basically until the non-compete expired) and now he's working for himself again.

  Just saying.

  Sanity is vastly overrated.

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  Nov. 15, 2011 9:37 a.m. alex SuperDork

  I vote strongly against going to school just for the sake of it. That means more debt, and no degree is a guarantee of anything above an entry-level job anymore.

  Speaking of debt, what happens if you throw in the towel with the current business? Bankruptcy?

  And Sperlo raises a good question - after all this time being your own boss, can you be a good employee again?

  The only two things in life that make it worth livin' are guitars that tune good and firm feelin' women.

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  Nov. 15, 2011 9:40 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

  15yrs of working for yourself? You will suffer badly trying to work for someone else.

  I'm sure I'm not saying anything you haven't thought of but... man... Re-tool, look for some niche stuff to ride the storm out. Use teh interwebz to expand your base... What do you have in that inventory that you can change/enhance/re-market? Nothing? OK, dump it for $50k working capital to re-invest (or unload some debt). Put the machine shop to work grinding out something that doesn't exist... silly E36 M3 like delrin bushings for a Hyundai Accent (complete fictitious market :) ) to sell to speedshops. If I had that answer I'd be doing it but if I had the setup already - I'd be trying to do anything BUT go to work to make someone else money.

  I'd be damned if I gave up autonomy for THIS job market if you don't already have an in somewhere.

  Lord of drivel and harbinger of Floundering

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  Nov. 15, 2011 10:02 a.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

  Huh. Try doing that at age 53. First off: it ain't easy when you are 35. But worse is no one wants to hire old farts who want to change to a different specialty. And I have my daughter to worry about (full custody, it's a long story). So here I am hunting the same work in a new city.

  But back to your question: How long would it take to retire your 90k of business debt? If you can do that, it would brighten things for you considerably. You might branch out into transportation cars, that way you can move some tin just for the sake of making $ and that might get you closer to where you need to be.

  Or as others have said, see what's out there in the way of machining jobs (CNC maybe?) and see if there's vo-tech that might get you into a position like that.

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  Nov. 15, 2011 10:10 a.m. btp76 Reader

  I doubt bankruptcy is on the table. I don't know if I can be a good employee. I do know that I have an appreciation for the idea of showing up to work, doing your job, going home, and collecting your check. I wouldn't expect it to be paradise, just a means to an end.

  I do like the idea of not having to worry about keeping up with monthly inventory tax, multiple corporate income tax returns, the liability of having someone slip and fall in my building, fire, burglary, and just the general personal stress of being the guy who everything comes down to.

  The trades to me means plumber, electrician... I'm too old to be starting a job that requires that level of physical exertion. I don't want to be 65 and crawling around under houses. I don't mean to sound pompous, but I'm too smart to be working with my hands. Also, from our semi recent home building experience, nearly all of the tradesmen who worked on the house were hispanic. I don't want to be competing with a never ending steam of immigrants.

  The idea of a tuner shop is a bad one. Every time the economy hiccups you go out of business.

  I don't know if I could do what I do for someone else. Honestly, I'd make a terrible mechanic. I'm too slow to flag enough hours and not well versed in fuel injection. I'm not the salesman type. My previous business model was to buy cars well and let them sell themselves.

  I don't have the machine shop anymore, and I've had a very hard time selling regular type cars lately.

  Drivers wanted for TX LeMons races

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  Nov. 15, 2011 10:19 a.m. btp76 Reader

  It's, at this point, taking all I have to keep up with my $3k a month overhead, which includes $2k of loan payments. At best right now I'm reducing the debt on the banks terms. If I sold out everything I'd be close to even, but would have little if any working capitol.

  My wife essentially started over at my age (she's ten years older) but had a law degree she wasn't using. Now she has a nice cushy job that allows her to spend plenty of time with the kids. I'd like to be in her shoes.

  Drivers wanted for TX LeMons races

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  Nov. 15, 2011 10:21 a.m. sachilles Dork

  Go in to some type of trade. Skip school unless it's a practical degree related to a trade. Find something you enjoy doing and work for somebody else doing it, even if it's for pennies, you are improving your situation. My guess is that your wife has health insurance for you and the family through her employment. That makes you that much more attractive to a small business. My other thought is to find a high school vocational program, and perhaps teach what you know.

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  Nov. 15, 2011 10:21 a.m. N Sperlo SuperDork

  In reply to btp76:

  A financially secure AND older woman. You have a record of making good decisions. You should be fine.

  - N. Sperlo -:-:- "Never take life seriously. No one ever gets out alive anyway." ~ ~ A strong tail wind can't hurt either...~~ K0HOF

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  Nov. 15, 2011 10:21 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  I've always thought that a decent cash stream could be generated by buying appliance cars on CL for $500 that need a head gasket, getting them right, detailed, and sold for $2500. Not as glamorous as building hot rod muscle cars, but there is a definite need for the reliable $2500 driver these days.

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  Nov. 15, 2011 10:25 a.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

  You are buying and selling but admittedly not good at sales so my guess is that you think you are good at the buying. Sounds to me that you should apply at a dealership as a Used Car Auction Buyer. Somewhere that has a whole staff of sales people who can work off the inventory that you provide.
  Does this type of position exist?

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  Nov. 15, 2011 10:26 a.m. btp76 Reader

  Flipping cheap cars is great way to earn some decent money in your spare time. It doesn't translate well to a job. There are too many guys competing for the same deal and thus, you can't do the volume it takes to make any real money. BTDT

  Drivers wanted for TX LeMons races

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  Nov. 15, 2011 10:29 a.m. slefain SuperDork

  DILYSI Dave wrote: I've always thought that a decent cash stream could be generated by buying appliance cars on CL for $500 that need a head gasket, getting them right, detailed, and sold for $2500. Not as glamorous as building hot rod muscle cars, but there is a definite need for the reliable $2500 driver these days.

  I paid for my undergrad doing just that. As long as your idea of "just right" is a loose term you can make good money. Find a shop that is in a bad area of town. People tend to walk away from cars when repair costs add up. Make a deal to help the owner to recoup his out of pocket costs and you keep the rest. I did that for years. I emptied out his back lot and he got more than crusher money for the cars.

  Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit.

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  Nov. 15, 2011 10:29 a.m. btp76 Reader

  I had an old guy come by the shop 5 or so years ago to look at a car. he said, "I always made more money having a job verses having a business. There's only so much you can do yourself, and you hire all your problems." I think he was brilliant.

  Drivers wanted for TX LeMons races

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  Nov. 15, 2011 11:52 a.m. Conquest351 HalfDork

  Dealership Service Advisor. You'll make a good paycheck in Dallas. I make an OK paycheck here in Brownwood. Still automotive related and your tech skills will help you a TON on the drive and explaining repairs to customers.

  Just a thought...

  When you can leave black marks from the exit of one corner to the entry of the next, THEN you have enough horsepower!

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  Nov. 15, 2011 12:39 p.m. Quasimo1 New Reader

  I recommend a different approach. It sounds like your business is profitable but under capitalized. I would NOT try going back to school or working for another business as it will hurt you too much financially. I think you should seek out ways to properly capitalize your business so you can truly grow its size.

  You mention the good money in your business is with selling notes on cars, yet you don't take advantage of it. Why not? Are you able to get a working line of capital? Have you considered bringing on board an outside investor with deep pockets? By finding some capital you may improve your business situation tremendously.

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  Nov. 15, 2011 12:42 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

  Sounds like you are a lot like me, except I'm 15 years your elder, and the changes are tougher.

  Don't follow the path (fully) your wife is suggesting. You'll rot.

  However, it's a good time for compromise.

  The formula I'm currently on is a salary which covers most of my financial needs with a flexible schedule, allowing me to do stuff on the side. I am continuing some of the work I've always done (a small amount), while building a new business from scratch with a completely different business model. I'll stay salaried (and therefore part-time in my own business) until the last possible moment.

  If I was 35 I'd look REALLY HARD at welding. There is an enormous shortage of welders and fabricators coming down the pike.
  

  Also, if you can get a position in the nuclear power industry (maintenance), no one is going to use less electricity any time soon. The work is compacted into down times, which essentially means you are on the road for 3 months (earning a large salary plus overtime), then home for 3 months (earning unemployment plus working on your side business). It's a bit of a tough model to learn, but lucrative and secure for the long term. Most of the jobs are not enormously physically taxing (but you've got to put up with a PILE of paperwork and inefficiencies).

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  Nov. 15, 2011 12:58 p.m. btp76 Reader

  I like the service advisor idea.
  

  Capital is the double edged sword that got me here. I had $150k in available credit. Overnight the market tanked and the credit dried up. So I was sitting on a large inventory that suddenly was worth less than it cost me and had no more capital to stay liquid.

  I like to weld. But I hesitate to start over in a strictly blue collar field. I'm not getting any younger, and I don't heal like I used to. I have small kids, and I'm the one who primarily keeps them in line. I couldn't spend that kind of time away.

  My step dad is an electrical engineer. He works for a company doing investigations of large scale insurance claims. IE was it really lightening that killed your air conditioning system. That sounds like interesting fun work. He's 65 and has no plans to retire. What would I have to do to get into a similar position?

  Drivers wanted for TX LeMons races

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  Nov. 15, 2011 1:03 p.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

  Service advisor can be a very nice paying position. I should know, I've done it since 1985. Something you need to know up front is that along with mechanical knowledge you will need people skills and a thick skin.

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