Forums » Off-topic discussion » Learn me 90s Diesel trucks 1 2 3

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  April 22, 2010 2:44 a.m. BoxheadTim Dork

  The wife surprised me a couple of nights ago (no, not that way, drag your mind out of the gutter and all that) by proclaiming that she quite like the F-250 I found on CL. She normally doesn't like big vehicles but she mentioned that she'd drive it unless it's a manual.

  Some background - she's got a GRM SUV (aka Jeep Cherokee) that's got some, err, deferred maintenance issues. Partially that's my fault because it's my job to get it fixed but I haven't been to Vegas for a year so I couldn't. She likes it but is not comfortable to use it for anything but trundle down to the shops anymore. I think a lot of it is fixable but only makes sense if we can DIY it. And we've got to move for job reasons before we'd have the time and space to do that. Hence ideally we'd need something we both can drive, that can double as a removal truck and potentially has enough oomph to pull a trailer with the Cherokee on it.

  IOW, a full-size pickup truck or potentially a van. Only, with me being European an' all that, I blanch at the thought of buying something that does single figures to the gallon with a tail wind. Plus, I like Diesels in a utility vehicle and if I buy something decent, that means we'd have a tow vehicle around for when we need it.

  From an affordability POV (I don't want a vehicle payment until I've got work again), it looks like the contents of the wallet could spring for a mid- to late 90s F-250 powerstroke or a Dodge RAM with a Cummins - budget is about 7k and that would buy either with a little left over. It will have to have 4WD for various reasons, slushbox and tow package - not that I'm asking much, oh no, but there are a few on LV CL that would fit the bill.

  Does anybody here have experience with either?

  I keep reading on here that the Dodge transmissions are a little suspect in a self-destructing way, is that also the case for the ones usually bolted to a Diesel? Anything else to look out for apart from the usual used car shenanigans?

  One the Powerstroke, there seems to be a common issue of the glow plug harness melting but other than that they seem to be rather durable. Or have I not found the right website yet?

  BTW, I get the impression that the Diesel engines don't seem to be commanding that much of a premium so it's probably not worth buying a cheaper gas truck and stick the difference in the tank, so to speak.

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  April 22, 2010 5:54 a.m. DrBoost Dork

  Get a diesel, and if you get a diesel, the only one worth getting is the naturally better balanced, naturally more torque I-6. They last far longer than the Power Stroke and are very trouble free. Now the transmission behind the Cummins is actualy a good unit if it's maintained. They usually aren't. The one in my truck was rebuilt at about 140K with upgraded parts (read performance parts). I sold the truck with 365K on it and the transmission still shifted like new. So, buy a Dodge. When the transmission slips rebuild it (one of the simplest transmission to rebuild) with good parts and put a quarter million (or more) on it as the engine just keeps going and going. 600,000 miles on a cummins is not even going to get you attention in the diesel community.
  Now, the dodge will need front end parts replaced more frequently than the Ford, but it's not as bad as the internet dweebs will tell you. Maybe I did ball joints every 100K or so?

  You know you are deep in boost territory when you get tire pressures and boost pressures confused

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  April 22, 2010 6:23 a.m. Mazdax605 Reader

  Dodge/Cummins. That is all.

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  April 22, 2010 6:50 a.m. tuna55 HalfDork

  DrBoost wrote: ...naturally more torque I-6.

  This myth needs to stop. Everything else sounds fine.

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  April 22, 2010 7:53 a.m. Ian F Dork

  I agree w/ Dr B for te most part. My '95 Cummins is backed by a 5 spd. I bought it under the assumption Dodge auto's were crap... (plus a g/f who would have razzed me relentlessly if I'd bought an auto). It turns out, the manual transmissions that were stuck behind the Cummins were not much better... and sometimes worse. Also, they seem to have built more automatic equiped trucks, so finding a good one is much easier (and you're less likely to end up with a turd like I did). It also seems there are a number of upgrades that can be made to the auto's so they'll last longer if used behind a modded engine and/or for towing.

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  April 22, 2010 8:31 a.m. Brotus7 New Reader

  I had a '97 F350 Powerstroke with a 5 speed stick. That truck was a brute. It had plenty of torque for towing.

  Do the 2500 series Dodge's have indepedent front suspension? I'd take a test drive with the little lady in both a Ford and a Dodge and see which one has a more suitable ride. My F350 was an awesome truck, except the ride was more rough than I wanted (I got it because it was a smoking deal, something too good to pass up. When I got tired of it, I sold it for 2k more than I paid, but I digress). My brother's F250 rides way better than my truck did, but I don't know how much of that is attributed to just springs, or also the suspension design.

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  April 22, 2010 8:47 a.m. volvoclearinghouse New Reader

  I have a '92 Cummins-powered Dodge 3/4 ton pickup. 4 wheel drive, 5 speed Getrag. Best damn truck ever. Extended cab has loads of headroom and space enough in the back to sleep if you're under 6' tall. I double clutch when towing or hauling, and the tranny and engine have over 252,000 on them currently. Oil changes at 4000 miles cost about $50 (due to the large quantities of oil involved and the $8 filter) but I've had to do almost no other maintenance. The body change in '94 is probably a better choice for the females- the redesigned trucks are quieter and more comfortable. The '92 and '93 are basically the last generation of the trucks that had been getting reskinned since the mid 1970's.
  

  The 12V cummins don't have as much power as the later 24V-powered trucks, but are infinitely durable and simple. I've used mine to tow a 5000 pound car hauler with 3000 pounds worth of engines, transmissions,and other car stuff in the bed, and never a whimper. As an old farmer I knew once said, "Don't worry about the horse, just load the cart."

  A buddy of mine has a '92 identical to mine, but with the automagic- I think its actually a torqueflight with OD, which isn't a bad tranny, and simple as anything to rebuild. With a cooler and proper care, it should be fine.
  

  The I6 Cummins isn't particularly quiet nor smooth, and the truck rides like a buckboard welded on top of another buckboard, but they just go and go and go and...well, you get the drift.

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  April 22, 2010 8:50 a.m. volvoclearinghouse New Reader

  Oh, and my Dodge gets 21 mpg, around town, not towing. The worst MPG I ever recorded was about 16, towing and hauling more than the truck itself weighs. Expect about 2 mpg worse with the auto, but still, 19mpg for a full size, 4wd truck is pretty damn good. The Fords and Chevies don't get as good a fuel economy typically, but are still mid to high teens.

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  April 22, 2010 10:11 a.m. Ranger50 New Reader

  If you want a Ford, stay FAR away from the pre-95 models. The first two years of the powerstroke is a PITA to fix if broke. I also wouldn't buy one of the IDI non-turbo 6.9/7.3's. They pull stuff, but expect to solve a sunday New York Times crossword puzzle to get to 60mph.

  Mileage wise, I got 18mpg in my 97 F250 PSD/2wd/auto combo. Pulling a 3k car on a 1500# trailer I lost 2mpg towing at 70mph. But then again I only knew it was back there when trying to get going again.

  If you could find it, I would either find a post-96 Dodge with a 24v Cummings or If I don't tow a lot, save the cash and get a 460 powered dually Ford.

  Brian

  "Never trust an intelligent man with no money to play fair."

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  April 22, 2010 11:24 a.m. Opus Dork

  Get a Ford with a Cummins swap

  73 Pinto - Toy 96 Nissan P.U. - daily 05 Mazda 3s - Kid car 06 Titan - Tow vehicle 82 Kawi KZ750 LTD - for sale 98 Honda XR400R - Street/dirt 03 Honda CBR600RR - death rattle

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  April 22, 2010 11:29 a.m. Keith SuperDork

  Good topic, I've been thinking of moving up to a "real" truck (my wife's words) and replacing the Tundra with something that has a turbo diesel under the hood. I'd been leaning towards Dodge due to my experience with her father's truck, now I know more for my aimless internet wanderings.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  April 22, 2010 12:48 p.m. cxhb Reader

  Opus wrote: Get a Ford with a Cummins swap

  BLASPHEMY

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  April 22, 2010 1:36 p.m. Ranger50 New Reader

  cxhb wrote:

  Opus wrote: Get a Ford with a Cummins swap

  BLASPHEMY

  If I didn't have no job, I would be doing that swap right now with a 24v. The engine in mine isn't running right now and don't know if it's a simple part or not, cranks no fire, lots of smoke, no CEL, and doesn't seem like the injectors are firing. It ran rough and just quit one day. If it was a Cummins, it either runs or not. if it doesn't check with the transfer pump pumping. If it is, check the injection pump at one of the injectors. And so on until you find out what is wrong. My PSD ain't anywhere near as simple with FICM's, HPOP's, valve cover harness gasket problems, etc....

  Brian

  "Never trust an intelligent man with no money to play fair."

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  April 22, 2010 3:02 p.m. Brotus7 New Reader

  I will agree, the PSD isn't as reliable or simple as the pure mechanical Cummins. Crank, no start, lots of smoke, sounds like you have an air bubble in the pump or injectors.

  I got about 16-17 mpg in my '97 F350, 4x4 5 speed. If I had the option of a Dodge or the Ford, I would have gone with the Dodge.

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  April 22, 2010 3:38 p.m. patgizz SuperDork

  people put the 6bt cummins 12 valve turbo motor in everything. i've seen enough hardcore truck and towing guys put them in place of 6.2/6.5 chevys and powerstroke fords that it seems like a good idea to look for a dodge to me

  i guess though the weakness in the dodge is the transmissions in general like all chryslers made after the 727 torqueflite. looks like some guys above figured that out though.

  John Brown wrote:"Safety" is my second middle name, it's right after "Screw".

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  April 22, 2010 3:58 p.m. JFX001 Dork

  cxhb wrote:

  Opus wrote: Get a Ford with a Cummins swap

  BLASPHEMY

  www.fordcummins.com (but I read somewhere recently that the hotter swap is the DT360)

  Actually, Ford used Cummins engines in some of their Fleet trucks. (F-800)

  Easy like Sunday Morning.

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  April 22, 2010 4:23 p.m. DrBoost Dork

  I saw a youtube vid (can't find it now) of I think it was a Pontiac Grand Prix with a 6BT swapped in.

  You know you are deep in boost territory when you get tire pressures and boost pressures confused

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  April 22, 2010 6:27 p.m. ignorant SuperDork

  My old boss worked for the Big C and did all the turbo development for the 5.9 in the ram. He also did all the noise work for them.

  He drove a powerstroke. Cause they're just cheaper. Do some comparative shopping. You'll get a nicer truck for cheaper with a Ford.

  To be honest, the fords are tons cheaper and get you 9/10ths there vs the cummins.

  disclaimer..

  I cannot consciously condone the purchasing of their product... It's personal.. and some of you know why.

  When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.

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  April 22, 2010 10:27 p.m. 93gsxturbo Reader

  Dodge with a Cummins is the best light duty truck with a diesel in your price range. I won't rehash details, but after owning a diesel 3/4 ton or 1 ton from each of the big 3, the Dodge/Cummins is far and away my favorite.

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  April 23, 2010 7:31 a.m. DrBoost Dork

  ignorant wrote: My old boss worked for the Big C and did all the turbo development for the 5.9 in the ram. He also did all the noise work for them. He drove a powerstroke. Cause they're just cheaper. Do some comparative shopping. You'll get a nicer truck for cheaper with a Ford.

  You might pay a little more for a Dodge (though I haven't seen prices to support that) but when you factor that over a longer lifespan they are cheaper. And they sound bad a$$

  You know you are deep in boost territory when you get tire pressures and boost pressures confused

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  April 23, 2010 8:20 a.m. Ian F Dork

  The truck volvoclearinghouse has is exactly what I originally wanted except the other-half was somewhat insistant on the Ram style. His truck is also next to impossible to find in good condition. When I was looking 3+ years ago, you couldn't touch a nice one for under $10K. They made more Rams, so I think the values of those has dropped, but I imagine the box-style trucks have held steady.

  A '79 Ford with a 6BT would be my perfect truck. However, you really have to love the swap, as it would never be cost-effective.

  If I get to the position where I'm looking for a dedicated truck for towing, it'll be a 2WD dually. Probably diesel. Probably an auto. Newest I can afford. Don't care about brand. Run it for a few years, sell it before it needs anything major (and turns into yet another project) and get a newer one. Repeat. Basically, keep it maintained, but use it like an appliance.

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  April 23, 2010 12:48 p.m. BoxheadTim Dork

  Turns out one of the features she really liked about the extended cab F-250 was that it had a third door for the rear seat 'cos that makes it easier to chuck shopping/pets/suitcases/elderly relatives in there. Do the extended cab mid-90s RAMs have something similar or are the strictly 2 doors?

  Sorry about the dense question but it's not that easy to find out if the trucks are rather far away.

  It also looks like a lot more bang for the buck with Ford trucks (more choice, too) and there seem to be a few deals on gas ones that I find hard to ignore.

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  April 23, 2010 1:05 p.m. Cotton HalfDork

  BoxheadTim wrote: Turns out one of the features she really liked about the extended cab F-250 was that it had a third door for the rear seat 'cos that makes it easier to chuck shopping/pets/suitcases/elderly relatives in there. Do the extended cab mid-90s RAMs have something similar or are the strictly 2 doors? Sorry about the dense question but it's not that easy to find out if the trucks are rather far away. It also looks like a lot more bang for the buck with Ford trucks (more choice, too) and there seem to be a few deals on gas ones that I find hard to ignore.

  My 95 Dodge ext cab is only 2 door, but my buddy's 98 has the two small doors for the rear. That may have started in 97, but I'm not positive. Those doors do come in handy....wish mine had them.

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  April 23, 2010 1:12 p.m. Cotton HalfDork

  Ian F wrote: If I get to the position where I'm looking for a dedicated truck for towing, it'll be a 2WD dually. Probably diesel. Probably an auto. Newest I can afford. Don't care about brand. Run it for a few years, sell it before it needs anything major (and turns into yet another project) and get a newer one. Repeat. Basically, keep it maintained, but use it like an appliance.

  My 2wd Ram diesel dually tows like a dream. It has a built auto with ATS triple disk converter. The ONLY reason I'm planning to move to a 4wd is because I am sick and tired of getting stuck in my field when it's wet. For some reason it's always raining when I'm in a rush to grab one of my trailers and do some towing. Just recently I had to use my 4x4 Suburban to pull out my dually complete with gooseneck trailer and toyota pick up on the trailer. That sucked because I was by myself, so had to keep the ram running and tie the steering wheel with the seatbelt to manuver it the few turns out of the field to the road. I thought about a rear locker and more aggressive tires, but honestly think I need to just go all out and get the 4x4 dually.

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  April 23, 2010 1:27 p.m. BoxheadTim Dork

  Thanks Cotton - looks like the 98-onwards Dodges have the four door body.

  Also forgot to mention that a Dually is out - I'm surprised my wife is comfortable driving a full-size truck in the first place, I don't really want to make it harder for her and I don't think that she'd be comfortable driving one.

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