Forums » Off-topic discussion » How do people afford it? 1 2 3 4

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  Dec. 17, 2011 8:55 a.m. Wayslow Reader

  We had a discussion at the office regarding car repairs. One of my co-workers started it after he got a call from the shop telling him that he needed $2500 worth of brake and front end work done. Another guy chimed in that he had just dropped over $4000 on his BMW for brakes and balljoints at the dealer. The conversation carried on from there with more people complaining about the amount of money they've had to spend on their cars. I mentioned that I just replaced the front rotors and pads on my dd for the princely sum of $62 and about an hour of my time. I basically got laughed at for a) driving an old car and b) doing my own work on it. I work for an engineering firm and most of these guys work on the mechanical side of the office so they should have a clue of how things go together.

  I just don't know where I'd find an extra three or four thousand dollars to have someone swap out pads and rotors or a couple of tie rod ends. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 9:00 a.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

  Take it step further. I bet at least one of those people leased the car they repaired.
  Sort of like paying to have a new furnace put into an apartment that you rent.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 9:02 a.m. sachilles Dork

  surprises me too sometimes. Some people either think it's below their station in life....or they lack the confidence to get it done in the amount of time they have available. I got to tell you, if I didn't have a spare car, I might not tackle some stuff, for fear of being without a drivable car if a complication arises.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 9:10 a.m. stuart in mn SuperDork

  I think it's a bad idea to make assumptions about other people - everyone has different priorities, as well as differing amounts of disposable income. Maybe they have more important things to do, maybe they can afford to pay someone to repair their car. So what.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 9:15 a.m. Wayslow Reader

  stuart in mn wrote: I think it's a bad idea to make assumptions about other people - everyone has different priorities, as well as differing amounts of disposable income. Maybe they have more important things to do, maybe they can afford to pay someone to repair their car. So what.

  I didn't mean this to come off as a judgement. I'm all for people spending their money at local shops to have work done. It keeps people employed and helps the local economy. It just makes me shake my head a bit. But like I said different strokes for different folks.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 9:15 a.m. dj06482 HalfDork

  $500 used to be a big bill for a car repair. Now it's not a surprise to see bills over $2K. Part of it is that people don't keep up on maintenance, and part of it is a byproduct of cars becoming more complicated over time.

  '05 Odyssey | '06 RAV4 | '06 Dodge RAM 1500 QC

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  Dec. 17, 2011 10:08 a.m. mguar New Reader

  In reply to Wayslow: Think things through the other way. Any car dealership seldom makes a profit on the new cars they sell. Profit comes from selling used cars, parts, & service. When you add the cost of advertizing most dealerships have, the interest cost of stocking a sufficient inventory. The overhead for the percentage of the dealership devoted to selling new cars, The cost of the sales force, finance men, management, Then there is the cost of keeping those new cars clean, neat, free of snow, Insurance, electricity, etc.. Now go on the internet and find out what any given car costs.. Darn few people come in anymore leading with their wallet.
  Here's the part few would believe until they work inside a dealership. New cars are frequently sold below what they cost! In a given year the dealership celebrates if they break even selling new cars.. (yes there are exceptions, some high demand low volume cars like Shelby Mustangs, certain Corvettes, etc. sell for thousands over list price) OK any person who works should make a living.. even the 15-30 salesmen and managers in a decent sized dealership, selling new cars. For information successful salesmen are the second highest paid career behind doctors.. (On the other hand out of 1000 people who start into sales only one will remain in the field for 5 years or more. Of those 2 out of a hundred will be defined as successful. I digress.. So a dealership needs to make money to keep the doors open.. they can't do it selling new cars so they make it up in the service department.
  Those of you who have bent wrenches for a living know that being a mechanic is not very rewarding. Yet dealership service work starts at the $100 an hour and a well run dealership will actually earn near twice that.. (That's because good mechanics beat flat rate)..

  Frenchy

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  Dec. 17, 2011 10:20 a.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  TBH if all the bills total up this month, we'd have spent close to three grand on repairs to my Wife's Cherokee. That's likely as much as it's worth out here, but the car is known to us (so we know what the problems are) and it's paid for. The majority of the work is stuff I can't do because I don't have the tools or expertise, but some of it I could do if I were willing to crawl around on the garage floor at temperatures that are below freezing. Which I'm already doing for the Miata (every mechanic around here knows Cherokees and can work on them blindfolded, Miatas not so much) and that's kinda enough for my middle aged bones.

  At the end of the day, I'd rather pull some of the money out of savings, but then again we're in the lucky position that I earn enough so the next chunk of the work (around $2k) is an annoyance and an inconvenience, but it's not stopping us from having food on the table. If it were the latter I'd probably think different about it but I still don't want my wife driving around in a car that needs front suspension and steering work.

  Sanity is vastly overrated.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 11:13 a.m. Woody SuperDork

  Afford it? I don't know.

  Pay for it? Probably like this:

  

  This is the sort of thing that people who like this sort of thing will really like.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 11:18 a.m. novaderrik Dork

  i know people that have paid someone $2500 or more to put engines in 20 year old cars that they paid $500 for.. and those were just stock replacement junkyard engines.. they always look at me like i'm crazy when i tell them that i would have done it for the cost of the engine (usually $500 or less) and about $200 for my labor + whatever parts are needed to get it done..

  but i don't have the overhead of a small shop and i don't charge as much for labor- my "shop rate" for working on friend's cars is about $20 an hour and it's a hobby for me..

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  Dec. 17, 2011 11:19 a.m. ProDarwin SuperDork

  stuart in mn wrote: I think it's a bad idea to make assumptions about other people - everyone has different priorities, as well as differing amounts of disposable income. Maybe they have more important things to do, maybe they can afford to pay someone to repair their car. So what.

  This.

  Lets say they are dumping $2500 a year in maintenance/repairs. That's $208 a month. That's a fair price to maintain a DD which they never ever have to do any work to. Time is money. You can't fault someone for the desire to spend their time away from work on something enjoyable instead of fixing their car.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 11:33 a.m. DrBoost SuperDork

  Wayslow wrote: I work for an engineering firm and most of these guys work on the mechanical side of the office so they should have a clue of how things go together.

  A couple thoughts, but this one first. Quite a few of the engineers I know and work with can't fix a car because they only know the narrow window that they work in. Man, they can tell you all about the thermo-dynamics of this or the reason this brace is shaped like that but that's IT. When something goes wrong they don't know what to do except pay a tech to do it. But for some reason, techs get no respect in the engineering world even though we often fix their screw-ups.
  The second point. Nobody (speaking in generalities like my first point) does any preventative maintenance or periodic inspections. They had no idea that their ball-joints were showing signs of wear for the last 25,000 miles or that the tires have a feathered edge. They just hear the clunk or the tire guy tells them they need additional work. And of course the tech is villified because he's selling them "all kinds of crap".
  

  If you were told your ball-joints were showing signs of wear you could choose a time when your schedule and budget allow for that. When you let things go and just keep fuel in the tank, repairs sneak up on you.

  You know you are deep in boost territory when you get tire pressures and boost pressures confused

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  Dec. 17, 2011 1:07 p.m. wbjones SuperDork

  stuart in mn wrote: I think it's a bad idea to make assumptions about other people - everyone has different priorities, as well as differing amounts of disposable income. Maybe they have more important things to do, maybe they can afford to pay someone to repair their car. So what.

  good point... 'cept the OP did point out that his co-workers were whining about how much money they had to spend on car repairs

  understeer: when you hit the wall with the front end,,, oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back end.... horsepower: how hard you hit that wall.... torque: how far you drag that wall

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  Dec. 17, 2011 1:48 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

  I'm more boggled that they'd laugh at someone for saving money by doing a little bit of work themselves.

  Follow my journeys in beer and brewing: http://brewercameron.wordpress.com

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  Dec. 17, 2011 2:30 p.m. 1988RedT2 SuperDork

  It's pretty easy to see who here is in the business of fixing cars. LOL.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 2:36 p.m. fast_eddie_72 SuperDork

  I make a good living and I have no idea how people afford anything to do with cars. When I see what a new BMW costs I think "no way anyone can buy that". But I see them on the road all the time, so someone does. Blows my mind. There are houses I would live in here in Denver that cost less than a lot of those cars. And the repair bills? Wow. Dunno. Guess that's why we have a "debt crisis". I have, admittedly, an unusual view of the whole thing. I've never had a car loan and my newest car is my wife's '98 4Runner. I know I'm not the norm, but when I see what people are spending I really kinda think there's some sort of group madness going on. It's a car, people.

  Ironically, I believe I enjoy my cars more than people who spend eleventy-billion dollars on one.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 2:41 p.m. fast_eddie_72 SuperDork

  DrBoost wrote: The second point. Nobody (speaking in generalities like my first point) does any preventative maintenance or periodic inspections. They had no idea that their ball-joints were showing signs of wear for the last 25,000 miles or that the tires have a feathered edge. They just hear the clunk or the tire guy tells them they need additional work. And of course the tech is villified because he's selling them "all kinds of crap".

  When I was in my early 20s, first real job- my old '84 Celica was in kinda tough shape. I knew it needed a steering rack, so I drove from Memphis, where I was living, back to Cincinnati so my dad could help me put a good used one in. But we didn't know how to do an alignment at the time. So we counted turns and eyeballed it as best we could and I headed back to Memphis. Took it to a Midas and asked for an alignment. The guy called me and told me I needed ball joints. I knew what they were and that they were important. He quoted me a price - and it wasn't out of line. But I didn't have them money. I told him I trusted what he was saying, but I just couldn't afford it. He said he just couldn't let me drive it out of there with them in that condition and cut me a deal on labor so I could get the work done.

  I'm sure there are mechanics out there who take advantage of people, but I really appreciated that guy helping me out. The car had about 140,000 miles on it at the time, so I have no doubt that it needed the ball joints. Who knows, that guy may have saved me from a serious accident.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 3:19 p.m. friedgreencorrado SuperDork

  fast_eddie_72 wrote: I'm sure there are mechanics out there who take advantage of people, but I really appreciated that guy helping me out. The car had about 140,000 miles on it at the time, so I have no doubt that it needed the ball joints. Who knows, that guy may have saved me from a serious accident.

  It's been my experience that nobody hates a dishonest mechanic more than an honest one.

  How can it be a midlife crisis, when I've driven sportscars my entire life?

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  Dec. 17, 2011 3:20 p.m. friedgreencorrado SuperDork

  Salanis wrote: I'm more boggled that they'd laugh at someone for saving money by doing a little bit of work themselves.

  Me, too. I'm wondering if these guys are part of the crowd that always has to "keep up" with the neighbors?

  How can it be a midlife crisis, when I've driven sportscars my entire life?

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  Dec. 17, 2011 3:29 p.m. Streetwiseguy Dork

  I make a living working on cars, I own the shop, and I shake my head at some of the bills. On the other hand, borrowing $40k for new wheels isn't exactly free either. We have lots of customers who spend, every year, as much or more than the car is worth. On the other hand, they are also confident that if need be, they can jump into that car and bugger off over the horizen with confidence.

  I also have customers who still own cars, that don't drive them enough to justify them. I've talked to several, and pointed out that for the amount of money they pay every year in insurance, they could probably take a taxi wherever they need to go in the city, and rent a car the one tome a year they really need it.

  I think I am implying that car ownership does not always make sense.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 3:38 p.m. Ian F SuperDork

  After years of working in retail, I got a half-decent paying job in the engineering field and bought a used '91 Integra to commute to work. There was an Acura dealer near work so I decided if the car needed anything, I'd take it there. While I had done a lot of wrench turning on my previous cars and trucks, I had a "real job" now and could pay somebody to work on it. At least that's what I thought.

  This worked well enough for awhile. Hell, I never even changed the oil in that car myself - always went to Jiffy Lube or similar. Until it needed a new muffler... then I ended up buying one and installing that in my garage. Then I met my g/f who owned a '97 M3, a '93 Passat and has a intense distrust of mechanics. So somehow it fell to me to do the deferred maintenance on he M3 and attempt repairs on the VW. A decade later, here I am... and at this point, I have far too much money invested in specialized tools (I have a lift, fer cryin' out loud...) to pay somebody else to work on most of my cars. Only the Cummins do I usually let the local Cummins dealer fix - and yes, I pay dearly for that.

  All that meandering said, I can perfectly understand why few of my coworkers do much to their cars besides occasionally replacing a bulb. Two have old Mustangs and one does work on it, but doesn't do much to his DD truck. The other one paid to have his restored. An ex-coworker has a couple of mid 60's Vettes and does much of the work on them, but again - not his DD cars.

  I've been met with more than one blank stare when I describe some of the projects and repairs I've done to our cars.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 4:25 p.m. Taiden Dork

  How much do these engineers value their time?

  How long would it have taken for them to complete the repairs themselves?

  How much do they value guaranteed completion of the work?

  I think if you broke it all down, there are plenty of reasons to pay $4000 for brake work. $10,000 even. It depends on what your situation is and what you value.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 4:37 p.m. Duke SuperDork

  I recently rode with a woman who had just spent $5000 putting a "new engine" in a Subaru Tribeca - a post-facelift one with about 90k on it! I couldn't imagine A) spending that kind of money, and B) that it needed a "new engine" that soon. She seemed to think it was more or less a matter of course.

  Junior Brown is my hero.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 4:53 p.m. Strizzo SuperDork

  Seems odd that your coworkers would give you a hard time for doing your own work just after complaining about the cost of repairs on their cars.

  Just yesterday I was quoted 60 bucks to replace two burned out light bulbs that were found during my state inspection. I said no thanks, and fixed them myself for 5 bucks and went back.

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  Dec. 17, 2011 5:20 p.m. pinchvalve SuperDork

  That's why I hate State Inspection. $24 to get an "Emissions Exempt" Sticker. It takes about 10 seconds, so that's paying $8,640 an hour labor rate.
  

  And then add another $50 to tell me that my car is safe to drive. Really? The last two times I paid a garage to fix my car they neglected to tighten the lug nuts. And they are are supposed to be the experts in this area? How about you let me fix it right, and I'll keep the extortion money.

  "Don't Sweat the Petty Things." Yes, and Don't Pet the Sweaty Things.

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