Forums » Off-topic discussion » Getting Noticed in Online Applications 1 2 3

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  Jan. 9, 2011 7:52 p.m. PHeller Dork

  Me:

  26 yr old, recently graduated with Bachelors in Environmental Geography. I've had two internships utilizing GIS skills, have done everything with GIS except programming. I know both handheld ArcPAD data collection methods and consumer grade data collection as well. I've had paid internships in planning and natural resources, recreation, and done projects for law enforcement.

  I can't get a job.

  I've applied for 15 entry level GIS Analyst or Technician positions, with NEVER a reply.

  I keep my "Resume Attached" email very simple and to the point. Here are my skills, here is my experience, please take a look. My resume is single page, no cover letter.

  I'd think that because I'm emailing someone directly that'd they at least be able to send a "got your resume will look over" reply...but nothing.

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  Jan. 9, 2011 8:05 p.m. skruffy SuperDork

  How often do you call that person after you email?

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  Jan. 9, 2011 8:08 p.m. Derick Freese Dork

  I think it's a dick move to not have some sort of email that thanks you for your application. Heck, when GRM had the opening, I applied and got one. I knew I had less than a snowball's chance in hell, but I figured why not.

  I haven't gotten my resume noticed myself, so I'm in for advice as well.

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  Jan. 9, 2011 8:08 p.m. Derick Freese Dork

  In reply to skruffy:

  Often, you don't have a phone number to call direct, at least in my experience.

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  Jan. 9, 2011 8:28 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  @PHeller, I assume your short cover letter does at least explain why you are the right person for the job that you're applying for?

  We get a bunch of applications that say "please tell me if I'm suitable for the position". Needless to say, that's not a good sales strategy.

  Sanity is vastly overrated.

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  Jan. 9, 2011 8:31 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

  I tried to hand deliver a copy of my resume whenever there was an address to do so. It still didn't help me during the recession though.

  Odd piece of advice: include the odd but cool stuff that you've done.

  When I got my first job out of college (that I since lost in the recession), the guy interviewing me remembered that I'd talked about piloting an airplane around the United States. If you've got something that's cool and unique, try throwing it in. Can't hurt, and will hopefully be something that makes your resume stick out from all the others with a B.A. in Bladey-Jargon-Blah-geneering. (Not knocking your degree at all.)

  Watching videos of sportscar racing does not fully convey the experience. It's more like playing a three-way game of Speed-Chess while strapped to a chair... inside a giant beehive.

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  Jan. 9, 2011 8:34 p.m. Xceler8x SuperDork

  I work in I.T. I've consulted, contracted, and been hired as a full time employee. The contracting gig's aren't usually long term so I have quite a bit of experience in applying and interviewing for jobs.

  Unless it's automated, I have never gotten a "Just got your resume, Thanks!" style email. Applying for jobs is an exercise in rejection. Just keep at it. When you're ready to quit.....keep sending out resumes.

  You'll get noticed and you'll get interviews. Just keep trying.

  You are what you do, when it counts.

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  Jan. 9, 2011 9:10 p.m. Tim Baxter SuperDork

  what xceler8x said.

  And if you haven't already, have a qualified third party look over your resume. I've seen a lot of resumes, and most of them say "I'm an idiot". I'm not saying yours does, but if you're not a resume pro, it wouldn't hurt to have someone who's at least a good editor look it over and make sure you're making the impression you want to make.

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  Jan. 9, 2011 9:13 p.m. oldtin Dork

  May sound hokey, but make sure your application checks off every item on the gig's requirements. HR departments can't hire you - their role is to screen you out of the next round - the less reason to get screened out in the first round the better.

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  Jan. 9, 2011 9:15 p.m. pigeon Dork

  BoxheadTim wrote: @PHeller, I assume your short cover letter does at least explain why you are the right person for the job that you're applying for? We get a bunch of applications that say "please tell me if I'm suitable for the position". Needless to say, that's not a good sales strategy.

  This. Your cover email should include the reasons why you are the right person for the job, tailored to each individual job opening you are applying for. Otherwise you don't look much better than an automated email response to the person who's screening several dozen to several hundred applicants for the position.

  I also agree with the phone call to follow up - last time I was applying for jobs I called to follow up on one only to find out that my email didn't make it through. I was able to drop off a physical copy of the email the next day. I didn't get the job but I at least got my resume looked at...

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  Jan. 9, 2011 10:07 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  By the way, the above advice all applies when you're contacting a company for sponsorship Remember, that's basically applying for a job. And if you spell it "sponser", you will probably get immediately rejected instead of a "tell me more" response.

  And definitely include your oddball stuff. At the very least it'll make you memorable. When I applied to one of my high tech jobs (actually, my email basically aid "you're not looking, but you need me and here's why"), I included a bunch of online applications I'd built including one that let you put different wheels on Miatas. Naturally, we ended up playing with it in the interview. Another designer at the company was walking by, saw it up on the big screen, and said "Hey, is Keith Tanner in here?" Okay, small world there, but I got the gig.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Jan. 9, 2011 11:53 p.m. fast_eddie_72 HalfDork

  (editing to sound less like a grumpy dad)

  Keep finding real life experience things to do. The internships are good, but even without a formal internship, try to find people who need something done and offer to do it for free. On your resume, don't report it as an "internship" or a volunteer project, just say what you did. In an interview, you can say you did it for free if you like. The person interviewing you should be impressed by that.

  Good luck,

  Ed

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  Jan. 10, 2011 12:01 a.m. Mental SuperDork

  Online resume's and emails will be screened for words and phrases. especially entry level ones. They will get a lot of applicants and step one is running them through a word search that will highlight the skills they are looking for.

  Especially with online resumes', do not be afraid to tweek it to each job. Just save a copy of it so you can speak to it in the interview. If you can call someone and find out what skills/traits they are particularly fond of, or talk to someone who already works there and tailor yours to what they need.

  The advice about outside stuff is key as well. That gets you to stand out and shows your ability to apply professionalism outside of the tradition thinking. Plus the guy interviewing you will remember you as "The Miata Guy" or "The Pilot Guy." That stuff matters. Knowing squat about your field, but knowing HR, your law enforcement work seems interesting. Everybody loves CSI right? You could totally be "The CSI Guy"

  Plus, it's hard, but you do have to stay positive. Its coming.

  "Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart." - Micheal Weston

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  Jan. 10, 2011 5:13 a.m. Marty! Dork

  My .2 cents is to use a "real" email address if you don't already. When I was applying for jobs it seemed that a lot of companies servers liked blocking unsolicited gmail and hotmail messages. I would hope things are better now but every now and then some of my emails still end up in recipients spam folders.

  Minivans - Pleasing Soccer Moms since 1984....

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  Jan. 10, 2011 5:27 a.m. Ignorant SuperDork

  2 problems.

  1. you applied to 15 jobs? Multiple that by 10 then we can start talking about complaining.
  2. tailor every job application to every job. Every letter and every resume. Use some of the key words from the job description in your resume and letter. Companies use automated screening software to pickup on key words and pass the resumes on to the next level of screening.
  3. Update any resume on monster or whatever, every week. Just minor tweaks. Change some verbs in your description or some spacing or something. That will keep it to the top of the pile.
  4. Use action verbs and words that convey ownership in every statement in your resume.
  5. Use the resources available at your school. They have consultants that will help you with a job hunting strategy, resume writing, and interview practice.
  6. Expand your job search.. Find anyone that does something close to what you do and throw your resume to them.. Expand location and expand the focus of jobs you are applying to.... In fact, apply to everything that looks remotely interesting. Whats the worst they can do say no? Have you tried applying to government agencies?
     

  For this last job.. I used the help at my last school to conduct mock phone interviews and totally rewrote my resume with one singular focus. They helped. I had some excellent polished answers ready for the interview and I completely nailed it.

  clubber lang is my friend

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  Jan. 10, 2011 7:07 a.m. Grtechguy SuperDork

  No cover letter?
  

  Most HR people I know look at the cover letter before the resume'. To them it shows you have taken time to read the job listing and look at the company explaining why you are a good fit.

  My boss is hiring another coworker. any resume's without cover letters are instantly discarded without being read.

  Would rather be riding my Bi-Valve lnterior Combustion Twice-Exhausted Bi-Axle Nitro-Cycle

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  Jan. 10, 2011 7:48 a.m. SVreX SuperDork

  I have reviewed hundreds of resumes.

  I rejected you (in this thread) before I got out out of THE TITLE of the thread (though I did give you the courtesy of reading the rest of the thread).

  First thing I noticed- WHY focus on being noticed in "online applications"? It evidences to me a fear of dealing with someone face to face, and an unwillingness to take the risk and put in the effort. Online applications are important, but will return an EXTREMELY low percentage.
  

  Which leads me to the second thing I noticed- If you are doing online applications, WHY only fifteen? I don't mean to be a harda$$, but that's an afternoon's work, not a job search. Your job search should include HUNDREDS of online applications, and dozens of walk-ins. I recommend 2-3 personal walk-ins PER DAY.

  Third- no cover letter is death. I don't care what you've done. I want to see why you think you'd be a GREAT fit for MY company.

  Fourth- stop focusing on your specific area of expertise. I'm glad to hear you have skills- so do thousands of other people I could hire. Re-write your resume to focus on your transferable skills (to other businesses and industries) and apply everywhere. Get a job SOMEWHERE doing SOMETHING, then move up the ladder or to another company. It is MUCH easier to get a job when you have one.

  Now, let me give you a clue. I'm going to contradict everything I said. The best job search is not grenade style or shotgun style, it is sniper style. You should be interviewing the companies you want to work for, not begging anybody you can for a job. Do your homework. Research every detail you can about a company. Know who the owner is, how big his family is, and what his reputation is. Understand their primary business, and know what direction the company is headed. Know what charities they support, and the history of the company. Figure out the name of the receptionist before you walk in the door. Be prepared to sit in an interview and tell them why they need you, how excited you are about this new venture of theirs, or that new product line, and what you bring to the company.

  I know this is outside of your comfort zone. That's OK, it's outside of everyone's. Sell yourself.

  If you do it this way, you will KNOW who you want to work for before you get there (and WHY), you should land a job in 2 or less interviews, and you should be extremely satisfied when you get it.

  Go get 'em.

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  Jan. 10, 2011 8:41 a.m. Raze Dork

  As many have alluded to, no cover letter = fail.

  You have one chance to separate yourself from the crowd and tell your potential employer something about you, not just the technical details, otherwise there wouldn't be an interview process.

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  Jan. 10, 2011 8:42 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  I have always felt that in an email application, the body of the email is the cover letter. Treat it as such. If it's an online form type of submission, then yeah - separate cover letter.

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  Jan. 10, 2011 8:57 a.m. JThw8 SuperDork

  All good advice. I would also say that if such a thing exists within your career field then seek out a qualified "head hunter" for your field and work with them.

  Professional recruiters are a goldmine. They know the companies, they will work with you on your resume and most importantly they remember you.

  Since my departure from the military I have worked for 5 different companies. I have been laid off and re-employed within HOURS of the layoff notice. Why? Because of 2 very good recruiters who I have worked with who seek me out for positions. When I got the layoff notice it took one email to my recruiters and I had a phone interview for a new job the same day.

  They dont exist for all markets but if they do for yours then find them and work with them. They get paid if you get a job so its in their interest.

  If there are no specific headhunters in your field still seek out the help of professional services for resume review, cover letter writing, etc.

  OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part." BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

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  Jan. 10, 2011 9:05 a.m. PHeller Dork

  I've always heard that in an emailed resume, the cover letter is the email.

  In all of my emails, I always include my skills, but there is no sense telling someone I have 6 years experience in Catering when I'm applying for a job doing Geospatial stuff. Any person who reads that will say "6 years in catering? well maybe I want his catering expertise, not his GIS skills."

  I have a job, actually I have two jobs, but sorry, going from working at a bank for 5 years does not transfer into a GeoSpatial job, so applying ONLY at 15 places is that SNIPERING you were talking about. I researched those places and included that in my emails....with no response.

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  Jan. 10, 2011 9:15 a.m. stuart in mn SuperDork

  Professional recruiters can be a good way to go (I've found a couple jobs through them myself) but you have to find one who knows what they're doing...there are a fair amount of hacks in that profession.

  It's something of a cliche, but in my opinion the best thing to do is network, network, network...talk to everyone you know, get names from them and talk to those people, and talk to the people they know. You aren't necessarily asking them for a job, but if they know anyone who is looking for someone. You want to actually talk to the person inside the company, rather than getting screened first by HR. See if you can set up some informational interviews, where you can meet with people just to talk about their company (and their industry) and yourself, even if they aren't hiring. If you make an impression on them, they may remember you when it is time to hire, or they may be able to recommend you to someone else.

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  Jan. 10, 2011 9:24 a.m. Xceler8x SuperDork

  oldtin wrote: May sound hokey, but make sure your application checks off every item on the gig's requirements. HR departments can't hire you - their role is to screen you out of the next round - the less reason to get screened out in the first round the better.

  I think we're seeing some differences in job markets here. I know that in I.T. the hiring company will publish a wish list for each candidate. If you read those it will sound like they're looking for computer Jesus and expecting to pay him like Computer Jose. In reality they'd like the candidate to have about 2 out of 5 skills. Having all 5 skills would be incredible but very unlikely. Again, this is in I.T. I can't speak to manufacturing, sales, etc.

  fast_eddie_72 wrote: Keep finding real life experience things to do. The internships are good, but even without a formal internship, try to find people who need something done and offer to do it for free. On your resume, don't report it as an "internship" or a volunteer project, just say what you did. In an interview, you can say you did it for free if you like. The person interviewing you should be impressed by that.

  Oooo! oo! Mr. Carter! I did this!

  I volunteered at a local charter school that needed some server work. It was pretty cool! Very relaxed and it looks great on my resume as volunteer work that dovetails with my career. Some companies really dig that sort of local activist work. Some could care less. What it will do is gain you exposure to things you might not get in your usual, work-a-day, environment.

  You are what you do, when it counts.

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  Jan. 10, 2011 9:30 a.m. Xceler8x SuperDork

  PHeller wrote: I've always heard that in an emailed resume, the cover letter is the email. In all of my emails, I always include my skills, but there is no sense telling someone I have 6 years experience in Catering when I'm applying for a job doing Geospatial stuff. Any person who reads that will say "6 years in catering? well maybe I want his catering expertise, not his GIS skills." I have a job, actually I have two jobs, but sorry, going from working at a bank for 5 years does not transfer into a GeoSpatial job, so applying ONLY at 15 places is that SNIPERING you were talking about. I researched those places and included that in my emails....with no response.

  You're right about the catering thing. I wouldn't go into detail about it but if the catering deal involves cooking..mention you like to cook and did it professionally for 6 years. If nothing else it gives the interviewer something to connect with you about. Maybe he/she had some fry station shifts in college and wants to talk to you about it. Why not? Every bit of positive interaction helps.

  Try not to be discouraged. It's hard not to be, I know. But like I said above, a job search is an exercise in rejection. You only need to have one guy/girl say "Yes, you're hired" and it's over. The rest are all no's. So by the nature of searching for a job you'll get a lot more negative than positive in responses.

  It has a lot in common with dating. You'll get shot down a lot more than you'll get laid. But the getting laid part is worth it.

  You are what you do, when it counts.

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  Jan. 10, 2011 9:35 a.m. SVreX SuperDork

  PHeller wrote: I have a job, actually I have two jobs, but sorry, going from working at a bank for 5 years does not transfer into a GeoSpatial job, ...

  I disagree.

  Analytical, process oriented, ability to work with established policies and management, ability to handle customers, reliable, committed to professional environment, ability to manage stress...

  There may be 50 people applying for the same job you are with similar education and internships, but the company may want to see an employment track record that shows ability to fit into a corporate structure.

  It's not that you are trying to catch their attention... it's that you are a DIFFERENT candidate with different qualifications, and therefore a better fit for the job.

  If they pass you over for the guy with experience as a short order cook, it's because he was a better fit for what they were looking for.

  But if you never include the experiences (and the relevant transferable skills), they won't know, and you will be identical to 48 other unqualified applicants.

  I got hired in a chemical plant as an operations manager by telling them that I build Challenge cars and race a Yugo. They were looking for a creative problem solver.

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