Forums » Off-topic discussion » Discuss my irrationality. 1 2

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  Dec. 21, 2010 11:36 p.m. Platinum90 SuperDork

  In my view, Porsches present a strange dichotomy. Frankly, on one hand I have severe disdain for Porsche road cars. Bloated and overpriced douche machines, the lot of them. There are, however 5 exceptions to this rule.

  1. GT1 Strassenversion
     
  2. 959
     
  3. 930 Slantnose (1986 coke dealer's special)
  4. Carrera GT
  5. 997 GT3 RS

  I also like the Cayman, but I cannot fathom where they come up with the 60 grand price tag for the thing. I can't see it being 20 grand worth of faster than a 370Z around Road Atlanta.

  It is possible that my "hatred" comes from working with them every day. I have found out the hard way how much the owners of P-cars can be tool bags. Just this morning, one of said tool bags called a co-worker of mine the C word... Also, I know just how expensive the parts are. A rebuilt ZF power steering pump for a 928 is over a thousand dollars. WTF?

  The Dichotomy lies in this strange statement. I view everything that Porsche has ever built for pure racing purposes as the best of the very best. Any day, I would place my money on a Porsche, and if I were to win the lottery tomorrow, I would vintage race a Porsche prototype of some sort. Be it a 917, a 935, 956, 962, or RS Spyder, I turn to jelly, and become the worlds biggest Porsche Fanboy.

  I will even say that I can appreciate a street car turned race car. 911R, awesome. GT3 RSR, killer. Any aircooled flat six racer, the sound vastly outweighs the ugly beating that the shell delivers.

  Anyway, this has seemed to cause consternation in the past, so...begin.

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  Dec. 21, 2010 11:57 p.m. oldtin Dork

  I'm guessing your experience with the owners has had an effect on your view of their rides. In corporate-land - in order to get the kind of income needed to buy a new P car takes a certain level of overly competitive doucheyness for many people. Said doucheyness spills over into every aspect of their lives - so when they come in for parts and repairs you're on the receiving end.... Porsche marketing plays their own part in kissing up to the d-ness. For the most part - year for year P cars - especially 911s, are pretty good examples of the top end of liveable road cars. The race cars separate out the corporate types.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 8:13 a.m. 1988RedT2 HalfDork

  Shoot. Any good, expensive make attracts people with an abundance of money, and often with it, an abundance of ego and attitude. I would gladly own a Porsche but I'm not wealthy enough and I'm not a jerk. Yet.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 8:32 a.m. Otto Maddox HalfDork

  I currently own an '86 944 and previously an '86 911. Porsches certainly have their charms, but I am having a harder time justify buying another one for an reason other than charm, or really just to own another Porsche.
  

  *For the price of a 944, I can get a '90s 300ZX which will run rings around the Porsche and be reliable.

  *For the price of a Boxster, I can get an S2000 which will run rings around the Porsche and be reliable.

  *For the price of a 968, I can get a 3rd generation RX-7 which will run rings around the Porsche and be reliable.

  I could give an example for just about any mainstream Porsche.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 8:39 a.m. JFX001 SuperDork

  I like cars...you get to meet all kinds of people, and like everything else, you weed them out as necessary.

  Easy like Sunday Morning.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 8:40 a.m. Schmidlap HalfDork

  Abundance of ego, attitude, jerkiness and douchey-ness has nothing to do with how much money you have, or what kind of car you buy. I've dealt with my share of douches driving all kinds of different cars of different vintages. If I let interactions with individual drivers cloud my car buying decisions, I'd be walking everywhere I go.

  Bob

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  Dec. 22, 2010 8:46 a.m. 16vCorey SuperDork

  Otto Maddox wrote: I currently own an '86 944 and previously an '86 911. Porsches certainly have their charms, but I am having a harder time justify buying another one for an reason other than charm, or really just to own another Porsche. *For the price of a 944, I can get a '90s 300ZX which will run rings around the Porsche and be reliable. *For the price of a Boxster, I can get an S2000 which will run rings around the Porsche and be reliable. *For the price of a 968, I can get a 3rd generation RX-7 which will run rings around the Porsche and be reliable. I could give an example for just about any mainstream Porsche.

  I agree until the last example. You really think a 3rd gen RX-7 is more reliable than a Porsche? They're fast as hell and super-fun, but every one that I've ever been around were nothing but problems. And I'm not talking about ragged out ricer cars, these have been well maintained, adult owned cars.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 8:53 a.m. Otto Maddox HalfDork

  In reply to 16vCorey:

  Well, I flat out lied on the last one. I just really like those cars.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 8:54 a.m. Platinum90 SuperDork

  the majority of people who own them probably are not cocks. It is more likely that the 1 in 10 people who own them that are cocks resound with me most loudly.

  I speak to about 20-30 of them a day, truly, there are about 3 douches a day.

  XBL GamerTag: bcbrownell Racing is the process of turning money into noise.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 9:00 a.m. Otto Maddox HalfDork

  In reply to Platinum90:

  Can you rate cockiness by model? I would assume 924/944 owners are the nicest but I could be wrong.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 9:06 a.m. Platinum90 SuperDork

  yes, 24 and 44 owners do tend to be nicer, but there are still a bunch of wicked arses among them. There also tend to be a bunch of idiots that think their cars are worth gold even though they only paid a grand for them.

  924 owners, when I say that a certain part has been discontinued, they say "well, what am I supposed to do to get my car going again?". I don't know what you are supposed to do...um...throw it in the trash.

  XBL GamerTag: bcbrownell Racing is the process of turning money into noise.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 9:53 a.m. Matt B HalfDork

  Platinum90 wrote: 924 owners, when I say that a certain part has been discontinued, they say "well, what am I supposed to do to get my car going again?". I don't know what you are supposed to do...um...throw it in the trash.

  I might have said something similar regarding AW11-specific parts

  At least my engine was put in a gazillion other models.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 2:15 p.m. Platinum90 SuperDork

  Matt B wrote:

  Platinum90 wrote: 924 owners, when I say that a certain part has been discontinued, they say "well, what am I supposed to do to get my car going again?". I don't know what you are supposed to do...um...throw it in the trash.

  I might have said something similar regarding AW11-specific parts

  At least my engine was put in a gazillion other models.

  An AW11 isn't a steaming bucket of crap.

  XBL GamerTag: bcbrownell Racing is the process of turning money into noise.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 2:21 p.m. Otto Maddox HalfDork

  In reply to Platinum90:

  924s should only live on through cannibalization of other 924s. It just makes no sense to buy new Porsche parts for a car that is worth $1400 in nice shape.
  

  Unrelated question - are early year 944 parts generally cheaper than later year 944 parts (with 85.5 as the dividing line)?

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  Dec. 22, 2010 3:35 p.m. Platinum90 SuperDork

  Otto Maddox wrote: Unrelated question - are early year 944 parts generally cheaper than later year 944 parts (with 85.5 as the dividing line)?

  Not at all. most of the parts are interchangeable, but the ones that are specific to early cars (dashboards, switch gear and control arms for the most part) are just as expensive, if not more, than their later counterparts.

  XBL GamerTag: bcbrownell Racing is the process of turning money into noise.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 3:58 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  I must say I met a lot of very nice, non-douchey P-car enthusiasts that also happen to be P-car owners in the UK, and I think that's the same over here. Mind you, I met most of them at track days...

  The key is separating the enthusiasts from the people who look at these cars as penile extension,.

  Admittedly I didn't 'get' the classic 911 for a long time until I tried one, and now I'm looking for my second one over here. But we're talking run-of-the-mill, non-RS (unless I can find a cheap-ish RS America) 964 or older cars here that enthusiasts can actually look after at home.

  Sanity is vastly overrated.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 5:29 p.m. curtis73 HalfDork

  I would own a 928, but that's all.

  Room for darn near any V8 swap, and the most rigid unibody chassis ever built. Let the fun begin.

  I'm bringing sexy back

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  Dec. 22, 2010 5:48 p.m. Maroon92 SuperDork

  curtis73 wrote: I would own a 928, but that's all. Room for darn near any V8 swap, and the most rigid unibody chassis ever built. Let the fun begin.

  So long as it's a swap car, I would agree. The stock 928 V8 is a beotch on maintenance costs.

  XBL GamerTag: bcbrownell Racing is the process of turning money into noise.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 6:19 p.m. 4cylndrfury SuperDork

  I know 914s are prone to rust, but the looks, combined with the size (both smallness of the chassis and the largeness of the interior) has this, and so far only this P car haunting my dreams. What say you of these cars and/or their owners? mill swap potential? As a shop guru, what would you rather see stuffed in there? 1.8t? SR20? K series? Inquiring minds want to know!

  Real cars only have one header!

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  Dec. 22, 2010 8:17 p.m. Maroon92 SuperDork

  4cylndrfury wrote: I know 914s are prone to rust, but the looks, combined with the size (both smallness of the chassis and the largeness of the interior) has this, and so far only this P car haunting my dreams. What say you of these cars and/or their owners? mill swap potential? As a shop guru, what would you rather see stuffed in there? 1.8t? SR20? K series? Inquiring minds want to know!

  The 914 is our "specialty", but left to his opinion alone, my boss would rather see it meticulously restored to pristine condition.

  Me? I say to hell with all that and stuff a twin turbo 3 rotor in the back. I have seen some pretty wicked swaps into 914s, from Electric conversions, to SBC's, to Scooby swaps, to rotaries, to any number of other big power engines. They will fit a TON of engines. One of the techs at our shop just finished a 3.2 liter 911 swap into his. It produces about 275 horsepower in a 2100 pound package.

  My opinion doesn't really matter, but 914s look like garbage unless they have fender flares and REALLY wide wheels.

  If I were to get one, the first thing I would do is chuck that type 4 aircooled motor in the damn trash.

  XBL GamerTag: bcbrownell Racing is the process of turning money into noise.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 10:02 p.m. Streetwiseguy HalfDork

  Maroon92 wrote: My opinion doesn't really matter, but 914s look like garbage unless they have fender flares and REALLY wide wheels.

  I saw a 914-6 race car years ago with those goofy front fins sawed off and glassed over, and big ass flares. It looked great, where the stock units are toads of the highest order.

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  Dec. 22, 2010 10:35 p.m. Brett_Murphy Reader

  In reply to Otto Maddox:

  Single turbo, better apex seals, remove the emissions, Megasquirt w/ alcohol and the FDs can be reliable and scary fast on pump gas.

  A clean garage is a sign of a disturbed mind. A clean and organized toolbox is mandatory, however.

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  Dec. 23, 2010 10:02 a.m. Maroon92 SuperDork

  Brett_Murphy wrote: In reply to Otto Maddox: Single turbo, better apex seals, remove the emissions, Megasquirt w/ alcohol and the FDs can be reliable and scary fast on pump gas.

  

  Did it look like this? A defunct company called MITCOM used to make these kits called the Chalon kit. Supposed to make it look like a coke snorting 80's car...

  XBL GamerTag: bcbrownell Racing is the process of turning money into noise.

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  Dec. 23, 2010 1:55 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  I kinda like the goofy front. Flares do look good on them but OTOH if you've got a stock looking one packing a might punch, that's preferable in my book to one that announces its presence by looking like a paddock refugee.

  Sanity is vastly overrated.

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  Dec. 23, 2010 7:57 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

  I miss most of the "douchy" owners because I only interact with Porsche owners at the track. Most of the people who stick around a race track long enough to fall in love with driving/racing turn out to be OK even if they were douchebags in the beginning.

  As for the cars - I have a strange love of the quirkyness. I love the oil cooled short wheelbase 2.0L screaming 911S most of all (I couldn't afford one so I got a 964) but any 914 or 911 made before 1998 has such a feel/smell and wonky charm that its hard for me not to love them. If it happens to be a dedicated vintage race car then I'm head over heels.

  I think the new 997 GT3 is a fantastic car - I've had students with them and I even got to drive one in anger. It is several seconds a lap faster than my actual race car with the AC on. It is unquestionably brilliant... but I have a poster on my wall of a '73 RSR and if I suddenly could afford to buy either one - I'd buy the '73. That is irrational in and of itself so I can't help you.

  Lord of drivel and harbinger of Floundering

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