Forums » Off-topic discussion » Cheap cars no longer suck. 1 2

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  June 6, 2011 7:52 a.m. pinchvalve SuperDork

  I will achieve baby-on-board status this fall, so I have been looking for something with another set of doors to make ingress/egress for Jr. a little easier than the wife's coupe. Ideally, I want a station wagon/crossover/SUV thing like the Freestyle or Flex or Venza or a Minivan.
  

  However, since kids cost money and used cars (especially fuel efficient ones) are at a premium, I have been looking at really cheap sedans. The basement offerings from Kia and Hyundai are really impressive compared to the Tercel EZ P.O.S. I looked at years ago! (back then I wound up with a 4th gen Civic, which eventually led me here...) Cute, tidy, efficient and with impressive features.
  

  I have to look at the Focus 5-door though and hope they aren't too much $$$, I love the looks!

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  June 6, 2011 8:02 a.m. tuna55 SuperDork

  The Freestyle rear seats are magical.

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  June 6, 2011 8:07 a.m. bravenrace SuperDork

  Think twice before assuming you need something other than a coupe. When my twins were born, I was surprised to find out that it was easier to get them into and out of my '89 Civic hatch that it was my '88 Civic wagon or '94 Teg 4 door. The reason is that it's easier to get a baby into and out of a car seat from the front than it is from the side, and it's also easier to strap them in from that angle. And if you have a bad back like me, it's an even bigger difference. When they are older, they just crawl back there themselves, and it's even easier for them to do in a coupe than a 4 door. Just something to consider.

  I'm just a cheapskate playing a rich man's game...

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  June 6, 2011 8:11 a.m. tuna55 SuperDork

  He has a point (although I disagree personally, I like the four door thing a lot better), but we have a dog and three kids. Three kids under 3 = big stroller and big packing. If you roadtrip with a baby, you'll be bringing some sort of pack and play, a few pallets of diapers, we brought a walker thingie for the oldest often and a bunch of other tidbits for them to play with that ended up filling the back of the turbobrick completely. With three kids it would have been nearly impossible.

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  June 6, 2011 8:12 a.m. alfadriver SuperDork

  Are you buying new?

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  June 6, 2011 8:21 a.m. aussiesmg SuperDork

  http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/another-appliance-thread-hyundai-conten...

  I can only add, its been all smiles

  Cornering is like bringing a woman to climax. Jackie Stewart

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  June 6, 2011 8:24 a.m. pinchvalve SuperDork

  Normally I would never buy new, but I am hearing that there are better deals on new cars, so I am not ruling anything out. 0% APR is enticing, but that is usually for rich people with excellent credit that finance for 12 months. (which I never understood)
  

  The Mirage Coupe in question needs to go for many reasons, like the passenger door that fell off (really, it just fell off due to its own weight and poor hinge design) I "fixed" it, but it is hard to open or close and the front seat doesn't flip far enough forward to fit my 12 year old. If it were possible, I'd keep the 40 mpg forever, but the car is literally falling apart.
  

  There is a part of my brain that says "buy a used Corolla" but the greasy, methanol-fueled part of my brain has been successful in drowning it out.

  "Don't Sweat the Petty Things." Yes, and Don't Pet the Sweaty Things.

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  June 6, 2011 8:39 a.m. Duke SuperDork

  bravenrace wrote: The reason is that it's easier to get a baby into and out of a car seat from the front than it is from the side, and it's also easier to strap them in from that angle.

  While I do not doubt that it was easier for you, I think that very much depends on the car. When my first kid was born, I had a MkII Supra. Despite having a relatively large back seat, it was virtually impossible to get the baby in and out of, even with the car seat itself permanently installed. When we had our second kid I bought a new '95 Neon sedan and things were instantly 10x easier.

  Junior Brown is my hero.

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  June 6, 2011 8:51 a.m. 1988RedT2 Dork

  bravenrace wrote: Think twice before assuming you need something other than a coupe. When my twins were born, I was surprised to find out that it was easier to get them into and out of my '89 Civic hatch that it was my '88 Civic wagon or '94 Teg 4 door. The reason is that it's easier to get a baby into and out of a car seat from the front than it is from the side, and it's also easier to strap them in from that angle. And if you have a bad back like me, it's an even bigger difference. When they are older, they just crawl back there themselves, and it's even easier for them to do in a coupe than a 4 door. Just something to consider.

  I would respectfully suggest that this is absolute rubbish. My wife and I went through a succession of cars in the period immediately following the birth of our first child. I will add that we are of average size and reasonably fit. Sedan (Mazda 626) was immediately jettisoned due to it's small size. An experiment in small wagons came next, with a Subaru Outback (wretched car, BTW) and a Volvo 945T (magnificent, but ultimately too small). We finally came to grips with our aversion to minivans, and succumbed to the considerable charms of our 2005 Mazda MPV-ES. Our only gripe? On trips and occasionally at other times, it's just too small!

  Wrestling kids in and out of cars seats in the back seat of a coupe? Strictly for masochists!

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  June 6, 2011 8:58 a.m. Javelin SuperDork

  Psssssttt!!! Mazda5!!!

  Michael Pinto - 73 AMC Javelin 360 / GoKart / 86 944 Sport / 01 Grand Prix GT / 06 Mazda5 M5

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  June 6, 2011 9:10 a.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  nope.. cheap cars pack a LOT of nice E36 M3 for their low price.

  Be careful of your words, for someone will agree with them. Be careful of your conduct, for someone will imitate it. -Leih Tsu

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  June 6, 2011 9:46 a.m. keethrax HalfDork

  1988RedT2 wrote: Wrestling kids in and out of cars seats in the back seat of a coupe? Strictly for masochists!

  Completely depends on the cars and the car seat in question. There are quite a few two doors where it's easier than quite a few four doors. That doesn't mean it's always or even usually the case, but it's not exactly rare either. The mere fact that it's sometimes the case makes it worth not discounting a big set of cars outright.

  It largely depends on how far back the back edge of the door is in the two door and how far forward the edge of the back door is in the four door, as well as the spacing between seats but there are a few other geometrical wrinkles involved.

  In some small four doors, it's at least as much of a pain as in a lot of two doors because while you're closer to the car seat going through the back door, you have less space to move and the angles are all wrong.

  EDIT: Of course once they get big enough to get in by themselves, that back door becomes handier than having monkey with the front seat to let them in. But that's not relevant to car seats.

  '08 Mazdaspeed3, '00 PontiacGrand Prix GT, '99 Metro, '96 Cherokee

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  June 6, 2011 10:03 a.m. bravenrace SuperDork

  In reply to 1988RedT2: I gave my experience, which is valid. In fact, the two cars couldn't have been more alike other than the doors. The wagon had a higher roof, which made it better than the Integra's low roof, but neither was any where near as easy as the two door. See, in a four door, you have to lift the child over the side of the seat to get them into it. This is both a cantilevered movement for the adult, and offers much less clearance between the seat and the ceiling. From the front, you can get much closer to the seat and you don't have to lift the child up over the side. You are also positioned straight at the seat to fasten the harness.
  You can call it whatever you want, and YMMV, but it WAS easier with the vehicles mentioned and me doing the work. I put two kids in those cars at least twice a day for two years. It's absolute rubbish for you, who did not do that, to say that my experience is absolute rubbish. BTW, you're watching too much Top Gear. My point, not knowing what coupe the OP was talking about, was not to just assume they need a 4 door, which is what most people do. If they try it and find out it works, then they don't have to buy another car, a real plus in my opinion. Why isn't that worth considering?

  I'm just a cheapskate playing a rich man's game...

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  June 6, 2011 10:10 a.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

  The new Chevy Sonic looks pretty good if you can wait until the fall.

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  June 6, 2011 10:14 a.m. bravenrace SuperDork

  In reply to 93EXCivic:

  I saw that at the car show and agree that it looks pretty good. I'm going to take a look at one as soon as they are available.

  I'm just a cheapskate playing a rich man's game...

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  June 6, 2011 10:52 a.m. z31maniac SuperDork

  pinchvalve wrote: Normally I would never buy new, but I am hearing that there are better deals on new cars, so I am not ruling anything out. 0% APR is enticing, but that is usually for rich people with excellent credit that finance for 12 months. (which I never understood)

  My wife bought her Mazda 3 last year at 0% for 5 years.

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  June 6, 2011 11:06 a.m. keethrax HalfDork

  z31maniac wrote:

  pinchvalve wrote: Normally I would never buy new, but I am hearing that there are better deals on new cars, so I am not ruling anything out. 0% APR is enticing, but that is usually for rich people with excellent credit that finance for 12 months. (which I never understood)

  My wife bought her Mazda 3 last year at 0% for 5 years.

  When we bought our MS3 that was available on just about everything but our car, but it was a few years ago. It was definitely available on the others 3s and 5s (the mazda5 is what I'd probably be looking at if I were going mazda with a kid or two).

  '08 Mazdaspeed3, '00 PontiacGrand Prix GT, '99 Metro, '96 Cherokee

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  June 6, 2011 11:59 a.m. 1988RedT2 Dork

  In reply to bravenrace:

  Honestly, I've only caught bits of Top Gear whilst at my neighbor's house. I really don't care for it and I doubt I'm watching too much of it.

  In my opinion, if you are driving a coupe, you are putting your "needs" before those of your family's and indulging your desire to be driving something that fits your self-image. I could not in good faith recommend a coupe as a family vehicle.

  I re-read my first post and confirmed that I used the term "respectfully suggest" in advance of "absolute rubbish" and also interjected a smiley face. I took these precautions to avoid offending you, but it appears that I have failed. For that I am sorry.

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  June 6, 2011 12:33 p.m. sachilles Dork

  2 door vs 4 door.

  2 door is fine when you have an infant, and the car seat has a detachable base. When they graduate to a rear facing seat with a fixed base, then you'll wish you had a four door. When they move around to forward facing again, a coupe is fine. New guidelines suggest keeping kids rear facing for quite a while longer, fyi.

  Loading kids into the center is hell on your back no matter how you do it.

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  June 6, 2011 12:35 p.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

  1988RedT2 wrote: In reply to bravenrace: In my opinion, if you are driving a coupe, you are putting your "needs" before those of your family's and indulging your desire to be driving something that fits your self-image. I could not in good faith recommend a coupe as a family vehicle.

  It seems like to me having a coupe only effects the driver so as long as the driver can comfortably get the child in and out of the car. How does that effect the needs of the family?

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  June 6, 2011 1:32 p.m. bravenrace SuperDork

  sachilles wrote: 2 door vs 4 door. 2 door is fine when you have an infant, and the car seat has a detachable base. When they graduate to a rear facing seat with a fixed base, then you'll wish you had a four door. When they move around to forward facing again, a coupe is fine. New guidelines suggest keeping kids rear facing for quite a while longer, fyi. Loading kids into the center is hell on your back no matter how you do it.

  Yes, and I should have stated that a rear facing child seat is more of a challenge than a forward facing seat. But that applies to many 2 and 4 door vehicles. In my case, it really wasn't much harder, and it was still easier to properly strap them in compared to our 4 door vehicles. I think the point here isn't if a 2 or a 4 door is better, it's that if you have a 2 door and are expecting your first child, like the original poster, don't make assumptions based on perception, actually check it out and make sure that "your" 2 door is unacceptable. That was really the only point I was trying to make, because in my case the 2 door was significantly easier than either of our other 4 doors.

  I'm just a cheapskate playing a rich man's game...

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  June 6, 2011 2:52 p.m. Brett_Murphy HalfDork

  EDIT: Of course once they get big enough to get in by themselves, that back door becomes handier than having monkey with the front seat to let them in. But that's not relevant to car seats.

  Kids are in their car seats until well after they're old enough to get into and out of cars.

  I knew a girl back in the 80s who would have technically had to ride in a booster seat when she was 15, since she only weighed in at about 80 pounds and was about 4' 8" tall.

  That being said, I think my wife's next car is going to be a Mazda 5.

  If brute force isn't solving your problem, you're not using enough.

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  June 6, 2011 4:17 p.m. kazoospec Reader

  In my experience, roofline is what kills you. The closer you can come to standing upright while you put in/remove kids and/or carseats, the better. While I'd certainly take a four door over a two door any day, what's really gonna kill your back (especially during those few months where they are almost too heavy to carry and still not mobile enough to get around on their own) is bending over inside of a car and trying to lift them in/out.

  Go minivan or smallish SUV. You'll thank me later. FWIW - our Honda CRV was perfect.

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  June 6, 2011 7:06 p.m. BoostedBrandon Reader

  I actually like my wife's Ford Escape. I wish it were AWD, and I wish it had a console shifter. but its got plenty of room for people and stuff to be as small as it is. A DOHC v6 helps in the punch dept. too, although it can be a bit thirsty.

  Turbos are like ketchup, they make everything better!

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  June 6, 2011 7:08 p.m. familytruckster New Reader

  When I had both my daughters I had crown vic/grand marquis. Which were great. Then I went to a fox mustang and a 94 civic- the civic was great (4 door) mustang was OK fr me.....Then to a protege 5 and a hyundai accent.(what a POS, and only 2 door) Somewhere in there I got a country squire, which was awesome for trips. Now that the kids are 9 and 10, my 318ti and the protege 5 do all the duties just fine. The protege 5 has been a great car.

  My good friends are in the new kid and car situation after totalling their protege5, they are looking at hyundais, and subarus, I suggested the Mazda 5. I like the 5.

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