Forums » Off-topic discussion » Building a garage 1 2

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  Nov. 14, 2011 1:43 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  So, we're buying a house in Pittsburgh. Yeehaw. Part of the plan is to build a large-ish garage on the property. I have plans drawn up for two different possibilities; a 40 x 60 and a 40 x 40, both with roof peaks of 18-20'

  I have IQS software that estimates costs for ICON brand buildings (traditional steel beam and skin). I have an estimate from SteelMaster as well. The numbers I'm getting are all over the board.

  Anyone know what's cheapest? The ICON buildings are coming up in the $15k range for materials only and I assemble it. That's just the structure, no windows or doors included. SteelMaster is telling me $60-70k for the same deal (except it includes doors)

  So I got online to try to find an estimator that will tell me how much it would be to build it as a pole shed or traditional stick built building, but I can't find anything.

  Anyone know about this stuff... or know where I can find estmating tools to figure it out?

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  Nov. 14, 2011 1:50 p.m. Woody SuperDork

  If you're in PA, have the Amish build you a barn. Seriously. I know a guy near me in Connecticut who had three Amish guys get on a train every Monday and work up here for a week at a time. They built him an amazing barn that was surprisingly affordable. I guess that they were cool with the idea of using air tools as long as the compressors were run off of propane fired generators

  I am not making his up.

  Porsche. Everyday.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 1:51 p.m. Toyman01 SuperDork

  My father had a pole barn put in that was 40X60. Cost was about 14K not including concrete. You might try some place like this.

  I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 1:59 p.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

  Did you check with zoning?
  So areas are difficult to build a barn with a footprint larger than the house.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 2:29 p.m. stuart in mn SuperDork

  jrw1621 wrote: Did you check with zoning? So areas are difficult to build a barn with a footprint larger than the house.

  This is the first thing to do - make sure local building regulations will allow you to build a building that size (and height), and that it can be something other than conventional stud construction.

  Online construction estimators are hard to find, if for no other reason it's hard to make them accurate...costs and construction methods vary so much across the country. Your best bet is to talk to local contractors.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 2:38 p.m. cwh SuperDork

  I agree with the Amish idea. They are close by, are workin' fools, and build high quality. One BIG drawback is that you have to feed them, they work hard and eat a lot. I have seen modern homes built by them. You would never know it was Amish, except all the walls were straight, corners plumb, windows right, little unimportant stuff like that. I would suggest you check with building and zoning to see if they are legal in Da Burgh. Contractor licenses and all.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 3:17 p.m. fasted58 SuperDork

  Last I heard several years ago a lot of pole building construction is done by the Amish, they just don't advertise it as such. That includes building in SW Pa. They may be based in east, central or northern Pa but they travel the circuit w/ crews... and they are good.

  Build everything, I mean everything to code. Don't trust any old contractor to do it right. Pgh area code enforcement is strictly by the book as I heard.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 3:21 p.m. jimbob_racing Dork

  Check with 84 Lumber. If I remember right, they have pole barn kits for sale or can design and give you a materials list for one.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 3:24 p.m. Dr. Hess SuperDork

  45 large for doors seems pretty reasonable to me.

  I've got about twelve large (Y2K dollars) in this one, counting everything from the dozer to the lights:

  30x46 on a slab. I got the building from Future Steel. Located just south of Detroit. On Canada.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 3:26 p.m. fasted58 SuperDork

  Pick out your own lumber at 84, they have the crookedest lumber on the planet.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 3:30 p.m. bravenrace SuperDork

  Don't build a pole barn if there is ever a chance that you will want to drywall and insulate it. The framing to do that is about the price difference between a pole barn and a block foundation-stick frame construction. Don't ask me how I know.

  I Wonder How Many Romans Didn't See The Fall Coming...

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  Nov. 14, 2011 5:04 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

  Cheapest is almost always traditional wood frame construction. 40' span is not too far for wood.

  Did you mean 18' peak? If you build a building with an 18' peak that spans 40' with a 7/12 pitch (common for PA), the walls will only be 6 1/2' tall.

  Or did you mean 18' eave (wall height)?

  If you meant 18' eave, it's too high for wood, and it's gonna be expensive.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 5:26 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  jrw1621 wrote: Did you check with zoning? So areas are difficult to build a barn with a footprint larger than the house.

  Yup, already checked. As long as it meets the boundary setbacks and as long as its not taller than 35 feet I can build darn near anything I want.

  The neatest thing since sliced bread

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  Nov. 14, 2011 5:29 p.m. Mazdax605 Dork

  Wow you are the only person I know that is moving OUT of Austin!! I know so many people that moved into Austin in the last few years.

  Chris

  He'll go to buy her turtle wax,but in his mind he won't be coming back

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  Nov. 14, 2011 5:31 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  SVreX wrote: Did you mean 18' peak? If you build a building with an 18' peak that spans 40' with a 7/12 pitch (common for PA), the walls will only be 6 1/2' tall. Or did you mean 18' eave (wall height)? If you meant 18' eave, it's too high for wood, and it's gonna be expensive.

  No, 14' eave, 20'8" peak with a 4:12 pitch.

  The neatest thing since sliced bread

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  Nov. 14, 2011 5:35 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  Here is a quick and dirty drawing I whipped up.

  

  The neatest thing since sliced bread

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  Nov. 14, 2011 5:51 p.m. Ranger50 Dork

  Pull through for quick trailer drop off and storage? Eggcelent.....

  "Never trust an intelligent man with no money to play fair."

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  Nov. 14, 2011 5:53 p.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

  What kind of business will you be running out of there?
  Jealous!

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  Nov. 14, 2011 7:03 p.m. RossD SuperDork

  Menards will give you a down a dirty price to enclose a garage. Of course the closest Menards for you would be in Ohio.

  http://www.menards.com/main/projects/garages/c-9891.htm

  (You need to put in a zip code for the pricing)

  00100001

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  Nov. 14, 2011 7:06 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

  curtis73 wrote:

  jrw1621 wrote: Did you check with zoning? So areas are difficult to build a barn with a footprint larger than the house.

  Yup, already checked. As long as it meets the boundary setbacks and as long as its not taller than 35 feet I can build darn near anything I want.

  There is also usually a percentage of lot coverage. If you've got a lot of land, it shouldn't matter.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 7:19 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

  That building is probably not a good application for conventional wood construction. You're gonna need some welded connections with that ratio of wall area vs. opening area.

  When you said "doors", I doubt anyone realized you meant 4 different 12x12's!

  If those are insulated roll-ups, plus decent windows, you could very well have consumed $45K in your window/ door package.

  Wouldn't shock me if your estimating software is low. Most are. $6.25 per SF sounds extremely suspicious. Even for a kit. Steel prices have doubled recently.

  You might need to ask a few more questions of your building inspector. Pre-engineered buildings (all metal buildings) often have labor, licensing, or footing requirements that would prevent a DIY installation.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 9:07 p.m. Ian F SuperDork

  I see a lot of doors.... which even when insulated are tough to keep heat in...
  

  My idea for a shop like that is the put the doors on the end - on in the middle that opens into parking in the rear. One on the right for a service bay. Office and enclosed shop area on the left (with man-cave above). The point being that large doors suck out heat and that will be a big issue in western PA.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 9:09 p.m. Curmudgeon SuperDork

  I built my wood framed 26x26 with vinyl and an insulated door in 2003-2004 for ~8k in materials including the slab. It appears my home contractor paid for the driveway but didn't know it. But that was with me picking up materials and driving every nail myself. Not easy when working a full time job and trying my damndest to be a family man too.

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  Nov. 14, 2011 11:11 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  Ian F wrote: I see a lot of doors.... which even when insulated are tough to keep heat in... The point being that large doors suck out heat and that will be a big issue in western PA.

  Growing up in PA I have worked in multiple garages of varying sizes and varying insulations. It doesn't seem to matter how well its insulated or how many BTUs you try to pump into it, its still frigid. If you have 2400 sq ft of concrete floor, its gonna be cold.... which makes me think about radiant floor heating.

  Put it this way... unless I find some cheap and easy way to heat the shop (like waste oil or wood), I refuse to try and heat any garage. It might take me a while to re-acclimate to PA climates, but I do recall a time when I built engines in February in PA in my dad's uninsulated 40x40 steel garage with nothing more than a propane catalytic heater.

  The neatest thing since sliced bread

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  Nov. 14, 2011 11:13 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  SVreX wrote:

  curtis73 wrote:

  jrw1621 wrote: Did you check with zoning? So areas are difficult to build a barn with a footprint larger than the house.

  Yup, already checked. As long as it meets the boundary setbacks and as long as its not taller than 35 feet I can build darn near anything I want.

  There is also usually a percentage of lot coverage. If you've got a lot of land, it shouldn't matter.

  1.09 acres.

  The neatest thing since sliced bread

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