Anyone familar with used wholesale values?: Off-topic discussion forum: Classic Motorsports

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July 17, 2010 7:08 a.m. SVreX SuperDork

Got my eye on a car sitting at a dealership- a 2009 Toyota certified Matrix S 5 spd with 24000 on the clock.

The dealer is having a lot of trouble moving manuals, and I'm pretty sure he is about to take it back to the auction.

He's not an idiot. I think if he has the option of taking it to the auction or making me a customer, he would choose to sell it to me for a similar price that he would hope to get at the auction. But he also will not give it away instead of auctioning it.

I'm trying to make him an offer, but I'm not sure what the markups look like. I know dealers are good at selling, and know all the lines.

Anyone have an educated guess as to what he could expect to get at the auction for a car like this?
July 17, 2010 7:23 a.m. dj06482 Reader

I would think that trade-in value would have to be close. In most cases, dealers start with trade-in value and then work their way down. So, say trade-in value plus a few hundred?

'94 K1500 | '97 328is | '05 Odyssey | '06 RAV4
July 17, 2010 9:29 a.m. minimac SuperDork

Unless it's an AWD and you WON'T be doing any winter miles, fugitaboutit. Horrible on snowy/slushy roads. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. Went with an older Foresster, gave up a few m.p.g.s, for peace of mind.

"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything" Marilyn Monroe
July 17, 2010 9:55 a.m. SVreX SuperDork

Hahaha.

I live in the deep South. Cold here means we don't wear short pants for a couple of weeks of the year.
July 17, 2010 10:41 a.m. Datsun1500 Dork

Quick look in the data base shows a few. 09 5 speed, 38K miles, dealer owns it for 11798. $650 of that is the Toyota Cert. 09 5 speed 36K miles, dealer owns it for 11893.

That is what they own it for, on the lot, ready to go. It includes the Maryland Inspection, Toyota Certification, reconditioning, etc. Again, this is the real number of how much they actually have in the car.

2 different dealers in 2 different parts of town. I was surprised by how close they were.

Both are FWD not AWD. If you need anything else, let me know. If you PM me the dealer there is a good chance I have that car in the database and can give you exactly what he has in it.

I completely missed the fact that I am now a dork and no one told me.
July 17, 2010 10:54 a.m. SVreX SuperDork

You've got a PM
July 17, 2010 11:37 a.m. Jerry From LA HalfDork

Datsun1500 wrote: Quick look in the data base shows a few. 09 5 speed, 38K miles, dealer owns it for 11798. $650 of that is the Toyota Cert. 09 5 speed 36K miles, dealer owns it for 11893. That is what they own it for, on the lot, ready to go. It includes the Maryland Inspection, Toyota Certification, reconditioning, etc. Again, this is the real number of how much they actually have in the car. 2 different dealers in 2 different parts of town. I was surprised by how close they were. Both are FWD not AWD. If you need anything else, let me know. If you PM me the dealer there is a good chance I have that car in the database and can give you exactly what he has in it.

Knowing what the dealer has in the car is like playing poker and knowing the other guys cards. Very powerful knowledge. The question now is what the dealer will accept in terms of markup. So forget the terms "wholesale" and "retail" for now. Concentrate on a number that'll make the dealer pull the trigger.

There are many dealers who'll accept a three percent markup on a car that isn't moving. Maybe even less. I'm thinking three hundred over his nut might make him jump on it. If he tells you similar models garner more money in your market, tell him or her that doesn't seem to be working out so far.

Put a time limit on the deal by making sure the dealer knows you have "another appointment" somewhere else and must leave in fifteen minutes. If you can't strike a deal and he lets you walk, the number wasn't high enough. Keep walking, though. If you have the time to wait, you'll get a call in two or three weeks asking you to come back in.

They'll take another run at raising you. You'll hold at your price and get up to leave. Three hundred today is better than nothing tomorrow. They'll accept your offer and try to make it up with the financing. You'll either pay cash or borrow from your credit union with a simple interest loan that allows you to pay less interest over the loan's length even though the percentage looks higher.

If you're trading in (DON'T), email me and I'll give you a good method for extracting the most money for your trade.

Reunite Pangea!
July 17, 2010 1:20 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

My trade will likely be something I am prepared to virtually give away. The only reason I'd trade at all is to avoid increasing the quantity of cars in the driveway. I'm OK with getting next to nothing for my trade (and letting him make a little on it).

I don't usually do trade-ins at all.
July 17, 2010 2:07 p.m. Jerry From LA HalfDork

Clean up your trade really well. Take it to a used car dealer and tell him or her you want to sell it for cash. See what they offer. Do this like three times.

Next, take out a Craigslist ad for a price a few hundred above the trade but still below what the market will bear for the car. You'll sell it in an afternoon. The whole thing will take a weekend (including cleaning your car) and the extra dough will pay your tax and tag.

Yes, a dealer can make extra money on it but so can you without a lot of hassle.

Reunite Pangea!
July 17, 2010 2:21 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

That might work in LA, but not in Albany, GA.

CL is incredibly small in smaller markets. VERY little participation. I don't even read it. If I want something, I read ATL (which is 3 hours away).

If the ad is found, a lot of people won't look at it because of the traveling distance.

Therefore, I could have the car for weeks, if not months more. Trust me, I've done it. It's not worth the marital stress that comes with it.

Additionally, anything I've got to sell is probably a vehicle with a more limited market (5 spd, older, high mileage, Japanese, etc). The market I am in has very little love for anything that is not a Ford or a Chebby.

My wife will LOVE the idea that we don't gain any vehicles, even for a single moment. Well worth it to me.
July 17, 2010 5:29 p.m. Datsun1500 Dork

Paul

I sent a couple of emails with details on this car. Just making sure you got 'em

I completely missed the fact that I am now a dork and no one told me.
July 17, 2010 7:50 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

Got 'em. Thanks for the help.

That mileage issue looks like a typo. It appears to have gained 20K while sitting on the dealer's lot in the last 3 months.
July 17, 2010 8:13 p.m. Datsun1500 Dork

I would have to guess it is a typo. The issue is, when the car is reported as sold as a certified car to Toyota they will note the mileage issue and that voids the certification. When you register it as 25K miles it will flag carfax, since they show it as 42K, and it will be reported as a mileage issue car.

They have 13,100 in the car, plus the $650 certification charge (if they sell it as a certified one). The 2 I pulled were not the S model (missed that in the description)

Good luck.

I completely missed the fact that I am now a dork and no one told me.
July 17, 2010 11:20 p.m. nocones Reader

Yes that's right.. Join us in the Vibe/Matrix zombie whoard.. The Poyota Mibe (or Tontiac Vatrix) twins are to appliance cars what the Miata is to sports cars.

As to the guy saying Vibe/matrix's suck in the snow.. I drove mine to work in 8+" of fluffly, slushy, icey white without snowtires. Once I got me some blizzaks the car is near unstopable. It's much better than my wifes 08 civic on the same size, same type of blizzak.
July 18, 2010 7:52 a.m. SVreX SuperDork

Awesome!

Thanks, D1500! You rock!

-P