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  Nov. 23, 2010 10:40 a.m. oldtin HalfDork

  Anyone have one they're racing? Any pitfalls to watch out for specific to them? It's been about 20 years since I've had a street TR4 - when I did have it I didn't know much. Mostly I'm seeing earlier solid axle projects.

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  Nov. 23, 2010 11:08 a.m. Vince New Reader

  In reply to oldtin: I noticed a TR4 at Calabogie this summer. I'm not sure which club he'd be with but if I can find out I'll pass it along.

  I'd suggest you check some of the parts supplier web sites like Canley, BP Northwest, Roadster Factory etc. and do some "googling" to see what availability will be like for you and what challenges you may be in for.

  If you're going for an open cockpit british car but not stuck on the TR4 you'll find a lot for the Triumph Spitfire.

  Best of luck!

  Vince

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  Nov. 23, 2010 11:17 a.m. Vince New Reader

  In reply to oldtin:

  Moss Motors looks to have TR2A-TR4 supply... http://www.mossmotors.com/Browse/ComponentMenuProducts.aspx?WebCatalogID=11&Pl...

  Vince

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  Nov. 23, 2010 11:54 a.m. Gary Reader

  I would suggest picking up three books by Kas Kastner:

  1. Triumph Preparation Handbook
  2. Racing, Winning and other Myths
  3. Historical & Technical Guide for Triumph Cars

  http://www.kaskastner.com/kasbooks.html

  They're loaded with great information for Triumph racers, especially for TR4 (and Spitfire too if you decide to go that route). They're are also good reading for non-racing Triumph fans.

  I haven't read his new book yet called Race Cars, Street Cars and Special Cars, so I can't comment on that.

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  Nov. 24, 2010 11:59 a.m. Monkeywrench Reader

  I crew on a very fast SVRA TR4.

  How serious are you looking to get? Some clubs have more competitive fields than others. A front runner with VSCDA might be mid pack at a SVRA festival event. TR's are cool looking, but a MGB will go faster with the same effort and prices are cheaper. More MGBs at the track usually means more spare parts floating around as well. They were also competitive in SCCA for a longer amount of time, so there is a healthy cottage industry of builders and suppliers. The same applies to smaller cars like the Spitfire and MG Midget. A bigger bang for your buck and a lot more of them at the track.

  "Any pitfalls to watch out for specific to them?"

  Again, it depends how serious you want to get.

  They can be reliable if you're looking for a decent mid pack car. To run up front it's going to take a heck of an effort, and at the end of the day it's still not a MGB, Alfa, or a Porsche 356...they'll go faster with an equal effort.

  They're robust, but the chassis is an old design compared to some of the other cars you will be racing against. Stick with the solid axle cars. There is less drivetrain loss, and most tracks are big enough and smooth enough that you're not going to gain anything with the IRS.

  Most of the trouble will be in the motor. Bottom ends are bullet proof when built right, but if you're turning over 7000rpm (most don't) the valve train will give you problems and it will take an effort to keep it together. No offense to the links above, but I wouldn't put any parts in the motor unless it's from a trusted racing supplier. Do what a lot of the MG and some of the Triumph racers have done and ditch the original transmission for an aftermarket or a domestic set up.

  Like every other British race car, you're going to need to upgrade the spindles, hubs, and axles to aftermarket pieces. Nothing unique there.

  I don't mean to scare you about TRs. They're great cars, I'm just being realistic. Just know that even though they have 60's build dates, the design under the skin goes back to the late 40's / early 50's. They're tough cars, and there is a lot of information out there to build a solid , reliable, mid pack car.
  

  The TR is a powerful car though. It's one of the heavier cars in its run group, but it also has one of the biggest motors (2200cc / 8 port head). It can hold its own at smaller tracks (Mid Ohio) and tracks with a lot of sweepers (Watkins Glen), but its weight and narrow chassis hold it back. A TR4 would really be at home at a point and shoot track like Road America.

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  Nov. 24, 2010 9:45 p.m. oldtin HalfDork

  Great feedback. A TR4 was my first classic - still pissed at the mother in law about having to sell it - so more sentimental issues than finding the fastest/most competitive machine. Of course now that I'm looking, the cheap project cars have gone away for the winter.

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  Nov. 24, 2010 10:32 p.m. dougie Reader

  Monkeywrench is right on all points. Though, the true enjoyment for most vintage racers is reliving the past behind the wheel of a car they used to have or always wished they did driving it in anger on the track. You can have just as much fun dicing with someone at the back of the pack as you can the front.

  Dougie

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  Nov. 24, 2010 10:56 p.m. Monkeywrench Reader

  I'm not sure what you're looking to do yourself. If you're going to farm the cage out, have it built to current SCCA Production specs, with "NASCAR" side bars if you can. Besides being safe, a good solid chassis will only make the car more valuable down the road if you want to sell it.

  If you keep the revs to 6500rpm it will be very reliable. That's a pretty common redline for those looking to have a good time and there is a lot of information to build a motor to run that way. It looks like you're in the midwest, so it shouldn't be too hard to find a machinist who is familiar with the wet liner design (which the TR4 motor is).

  Most sanctioning bodies on the east coast and upper midwest go by SVRA's rule set http://svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-68FQFB/$file/TR+2-3-4.pdf?Ope...

  and http://svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-5ZGG5K/$file/Group+3+Regulati... . As always, consult your home sanctioning body in case they have any differences.

  Here is a well built and a pretty quick TR4 that would be a good model to base yours off of. http://britishracecar.com/GeorgeWright-Triumph-TR4.htm

  I would recommend going to an aftermarket pedal / master cylinder set up. You'll get the proper pedal ratio this way and different master cylinder sizes are easy to get as our rebuild kits. If you're having a cage built, it would be best to just give the assembly to them and let them figure out how to install it. I also think a racing hydraulic clutch is a good idea. It's common to see people use "heavy duty" stock style units and they fail. An aftermarket Tilton clutch is bullet proof and all you need to do is change the friction plates every season or two.

  Last, but not least. Check out the FOT list http://www.team.net/mharc/archives/html/fot/ . You need to be a member to contribute, but you don't have to be one to read it. There is a tight nit group of Triumph TR racers in the upper midwest. Search out Tony Drews and besides being a really nice guy, he will be a valuable asset to what you're looking to do.

  Hope this helps!

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  Nov. 25, 2010 7:00 a.m. André Rousseau HalfDork

  Go for it!

  As a rookie. I competed in my first season vintage racing this year and it was blast. I did my race school in April, a race in June and a race in Sept. (Very much so a budget racer.)

  I too was hunting for a Triumph, but got seduced by the dark side.

  Find the best prepped car you can afford and take it from there.

  In my case I build up a track day car while keeping the costs down. That allowed me to build the car's safety systems to fit me. (Cage and race seat to size.)

  Hook up with the FOT guys for sure and see if you know anyone locally for support. A must in your first year.

  For me the VARAC guys all helped me out. From towing the car home in 2009 to prepping for my first race.

  And then naturally relax and enjoy your first few races. Your goal is simple. Drive clean. Get those checks in the box and put the race back on the trailer at the end of the weekend with a huge stupid smile on your face.

  Again simply go for it.

  I need to update my site, but I more or less covered all the costs in getting started.

  http://www.124racer.com/ http://andrerousseau.wordpress.com/

  1968 Triumph GT6 Mk1

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  Nov. 25, 2010 11:54 a.m. Vince New Reader

  In reply to dougie: Your on the mark with that comment dougie. And I'll be happy to have a TR to "dice with" at the back of the pack since I'm sure that's where I'll be with the GT6 for at least a year or two.... and loving it I'm sure.

  Vince

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  Nov. 25, 2010 12:45 p.m. André Rousseau HalfDork

  Nothing gets the heart rate going like being on the outside of turn 2 at Mosport. ;)

  1968 Triumph GT6 Mk1

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  Nov. 29, 2010 7:25 p.m. oldtin Dork

  Found this one - same owner for the last 30 years -- hasn't been used in the last 10 - engine still turns by hand. 1963 solid axle. GRM challenge priced. I pick it up on Saturday.

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  Nov. 29, 2010 7:38 p.m. André Rousseau HalfDork

  Awesome dude.

  A.

  1968 Triumph GT6 Mk1

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  Nov. 30, 2010 9:38 a.m. spitfirebill Dork

  You got a deal!

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  Nov. 30, 2010 12:43 p.m. Vince New Reader

  In reply to oldtin:

  Congratulations, looks like a solid TR.. Can't wait to see the build happen!

  Vince

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  Nov. 30, 2010 3:23 p.m. Tom Heath Webmaster

  Nice score. I can't wait to see what it looks like when you're finished!

  I tried drag racing, but kept blowing the apex for turn 2... Xbox Live gamertag— GRM Tom

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  Dec. 4, 2010 8:56 a.m. TriHardRacing

  In reply to Monkeywrench:

  Hi,

  Out here on the west coast we have many front running TR4s. admittedly, spitfires end up being the fastest. I race a TR4, and I am admittedly a mid to frontish packer, but I am also new to racing, and I think it's more my driving than the car. I say go for it if you want a 4.

  One thing I have always wondered about MGBs, do they all have lever shocks I'm the front? Is that what people race with?

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  Dec. 4, 2010 7:08 p.m. Monkeywrench Reader

  For what the o.p. is looking to do, I agree. He didn't state his full intetions, and vintage racing has gotten a little more serious over the years as more former SCCA and IMSA racers make the switch. I was just trying to cover all the bases.

  Yes, they are running lever shocks in the front.

  I'm aware there are front running TR's in VARA. I don't know how they stack up against the fields on the east coast. Based on lap times, the fastest vintage Porsche 356 and MGB we race against, if placed in the "All Triumph Race" at Watkins Glen a few years ago, would have beaten everybody but Halkias. That includes the TR250K, Group 44 TR6, and two other slick shod SCCA TR6s.

  There are a few really fast Spitfires on the east coast as well. A few are very close to, but not quite as fast as the TR I crew on. The TR has the motor for sure and the tracks we run on are big (average lap speed 85+mph at most tracks) but the Spitfires weigh 500+lbs less per rules, and since we're not drag racing, that accounts for A LOT.

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  Dec. 4, 2010 9:32 p.m. oldtin Dork

  Brought a TR home today - long day - snow all the way (700 miles round trip). I'm thinking more about vintage than SCCA/NASA. In the Midwest it looks like the VSCDA is the group - Road America, Grattan, Autobahn, Blackhawk Farm, Gingerman. There's at least a couple of TR4s running (Tony Drew and a couple others IIRC) It will be 2012 at the earliest this one is ready unless the lottery kicks in.

  About the MGs - for vintage I believe they're running revalved lever shocks, but their might be some legal telescopic conversions (mine is a grassroots challenge car (SBF)- the stock crossmember was replaced with tubes and uses coilovers.

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  July 26, 2011 5:48 a.m. Muskrat

  Just found this.

  Here my TR4 racer.

  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3461007959468444664#

  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3263131768683885766#

  TR4's are Great Race cars (Have a crazy fast Race TR6 too :)).

  Muskrat (my first post).

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