Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Was I too rough? AutoX + StarSpecs = Chewed Up 1 2

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  June 28, 2011 7:59 p.m. MrMook New Reader

  Ok, I accept the fact that tire-wear happens quickly when autocrossing. I also know that I bought softer 200 treadwear Star Specs, so I may see more wear than normal. But does this look normal?

  Front

  Rear

  Tires were on for a week, and driven for maybe 40 miles before I subjected them to 12 runs on hot pavement. I'm not disappointed considering the heat, the rough surface, and my lead-foot, but I think I'll be adjusting my driving style at future events. Should I be watering the tires down between runs?

  Vitals: 195/60/14 Started with all four wheels at 35psi. Saw wearing on the sidewall, so bumped the fronts up to 40. Hot pressure readings were 38 rear, 43 front.

  

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  June 28, 2011 8:06 p.m. mtn SuperDork

  IIRC, Star Specs have a habit of chunking with hot temperatures. I'd at least start watering them down.

  Anytime somebody tells you that vodka mixes well with anything, slide them a jar of mayonnaise and tell them to practice what they preach.

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  June 28, 2011 8:18 p.m. huggybear626 New Reader

  Look like my star specs after the last autocross. I also have 5k on them too.

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  June 28, 2011 9:01 p.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

  This does not make me happy.

  How much does that vdub weigh and what sort of modifications are done? I had to get these tires because the RS3s were on LOOOONG backorder.

  SCAVENGE THE SEA FLOOR FOR NUTRIENTS

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  June 28, 2011 9:25 p.m. kazoospec Reader

  Hard to tell for sure from your pics, but looks like a combination of a cheese grater surface, lots of runs and too much heat. I had some craptacular all seasons chunk on me like that when I first started racing, but that was 18 runs on a 90+ degree day with no sprayer in between runs. Close ups of the run surface look pretty rough. Probably not a very satisfying answer, but I'd guess a combination of all three. Did they start to feel "greasy" towards the end? If so, a sprayer may help a little.

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  June 28, 2011 9:26 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  They look fine to me.

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  June 28, 2011 9:49 p.m. MrMook New Reader

  The surface was nasty. Gravely, rough, and one of the corners had large, uneven gaps in the pavement with tall grass growing through them. And it was HOT out.

  Suspension is fairly stock. H&R OE Sport springs, Bilstein TC dampers, and fresh poly bushings. Stock front sway bar, no rear (yet). It did feel like I could "slide" it through some of the corners, and the tires heated up pretty quick (according to PSI readings). I'm new at "tire feel", so I couldn't really tell you how different they were from others I've run.

  I guess it's just a combination of worst-case scenarios. Overall, the tread looks fine, meaning there's still "life" if depth is any indicator. They should serve day-to-day needs just fine. I may rotate the rears to the front for a while, and take it easy at the next event (or save up for two new tires).

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  June 28, 2011 9:50 p.m. WilberM3 Dork

  looks pretty normal on what looks like a camber challenged car

  Dave

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  June 28, 2011 9:56 p.m. John Brown SuperDork

  If anything I might add 3psi front and drop 5-5psi rear depending on what the pyrometer says after a run. They look good, my Toyos would look about the same after a good weekend.

  I have the feeling our government is banking on the popularity of American Cheese.

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  June 28, 2011 9:57 p.m. CarRamRod New Reader

  I was at this event too (#97 BS S2000) and thats normal wear especially after running on the surface that we were on. That lot hasn't been repaved for decades and is known for chewing through tires and breaking parts. Plus we didn't have a lot of time between runs so the extra heat in the tires didn't help much.

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  June 28, 2011 10:05 p.m. carguy123 SuperDork

  I've run star specs for 2 years now and never seen anything like that.

  "mobilito ergo sum" I drive therefore I am!

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  June 28, 2011 10:23 p.m. yamaha Reader

  Just look like you were sliding a bit much before you had proper tire pressure in them. With mine in 235/40 17's I was running 42-44lbs of air in them, and didn't get that. I also got over 25k street miles out of them too. Your rears look pretty normal, quick question, is the car understeer or oversteer based? I saw H-stock, so im assuming understeer. Try 42lbs front and 45 in the back to get it to slide a bit

  05 Ion Redline daily, 95 SHO 5sp with goodies, 95 BMW 318ti with even more goodies.....lol

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  June 28, 2011 10:29 p.m. ProDarwin Dork

  WilberM3 wrote: looks pretty normal on what looks like a camber challenged car

  This.

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  June 28, 2011 11:18 p.m. CanadianTercel New Reader

  Autox, new york? where.. would this be close enough to niagara falls? :)

  Tercels and Formula Vee is my life!

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  June 28, 2011 11:23 p.m. pigeon Dork

  CanadianTercel wrote: Autox, new york? where.. would this be close enough to niagara falls? :)

  Profile says Brooklyn.

  Check out WNY region SCCA - I'm pretty sure they run at NCCC a couple times a year. BMWCCA/Niagara Region PCA don't run there anymore; since BIMP closed the closest we run is Seneca Army Depot I think.

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  June 28, 2011 11:55 p.m. CarRamRod New Reader

  CanadianTercel wrote: Autox, new york? where.. would this be close enough to niagara falls? :)

  Not even close . This was at the Nassau Coliseum on Long Island with the NYR SCCA.

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  June 29, 2011 4:46 a.m. foxtrapper SuperDork

  Look at the pictures of your car. Look at the way the tires are relating to the pavement. The wear you see sure matches to my eyes.

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  June 29, 2011 6:06 a.m. cpdave New Reader

  Definately camber challenged. The bushings actually put you in Street Prepared (unless they are VW replacement parts, identical to them, or JUST front swaybar bushings), so you might as well do the front & rear anti-sway bars and camber/caster plates (if available for this chassis).

  Spin Cycle

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  June 29, 2011 11:57 a.m. MrMook New Reader

  The control arm bushings were R32 rears, and poly front. Swaybar bushings were poly and stock (poly for the "easy-to-reach" and stock for the PITA inners that I didn't change yet). I'll move myself into SP for the next event if that's the case. Not really looking to be competitive, just chose to "upgrade" while doing regular maintenance.

  I guess if I landed myself in SP, I might as well get adjustable camber plates. Are they accurate/precise enough to re-set my camber for street after an event?

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  June 29, 2011 12:12 p.m. ProDarwin Dork

  Why would poly bushings throw you in SP? They are legal in ST. Camber plates are also legal in ST. (Unless this is a VW specific thing I am unaware of).

  No, they aren't accurate enough to re-set camber. You wouldn't want to anyway, as dialing in more camber at the event would most likely result in toe-in (assuming your steering rack is where it is on most FWD cars).

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  June 29, 2011 12:12 p.m. Duke SuperDork

  MrMook wrote: I guess if I landed myself in SP, I might as well get adjustable camber plates. Are they accurate/precise enough to re-set my camber for street after an event?

  You may not need to. In my Neons I ran a solid amount of negative camber up front - 2 or 2.5 degrees - on daily drivers. Every alignment shop swore up and down my tires would wear on the insides, but with zero toe, the camber actually made them wear more evenly instead of just on the outside shoulder.

  Junior Brown is my hero.

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  June 29, 2011 12:25 p.m. fast_eddie_72 Dork

  I run -3 on the front of my MR2. It wears the inside faster than the outside, but not more than I consider reasonable. I also run zero toe. It's my dd.

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  June 29, 2011 12:26 p.m. MrMook New Reader

  ProDarwin wrote: Why would poly bushings throw you in SP? They are legal in ST. Camber plates are also legal in ST. (Unless this is a VW specific thing I am unaware of).

  A quick read of the rules, and it looks like I'm good for ST. Good to know I'm no longer stock....although it would have been better if I had read the rules more closely from the get-go.

  
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  June 29, 2011 12:30 p.m. sobe_death Reader

  ProDarwin wrote:

  WilberM3 wrote: looks pretty normal on what looks like a camber challenged car

  This.

  Double this. That's what the outside of my Star Specs used to look like on the front of the S2000 before I went WAY negative on the camber. I suspect that you'll be able to feel the outer edge is much warmer than the inner. It also looks like once you get camber dialed in, you will need to reduce tire pressures. Mine like to run at 34-35 hot.

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  June 29, 2011 3:39 p.m. GameboyRMH SuperDork

  I'm reconsidering whether I should get these for my AE92 now. High temperatures and rough surfaces are the norm around here, and although there isn't much body roll with the new suspension and I'm running -2.5deg in the front, the rear camber is non-adjustable and is at 0deg IIRC. I used to have tons of body roll with the old suspension and the Ecsta SPTs never chunked.

  There's no such thing as "too light." There's "tires too skinny," "not enough downforce" and "underdamped."

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