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  Feb. 2, 2011 10:59 a.m. twolittlebroncos Reader

  Searching for a family hauler (6 passengers or more). Trying to stay under $10k or less if possible. My initial thought is to get a mini van, but then I hear horror stories about transmissions on Odysseys & Siennas. The reliability for Chrysler/Dodge vans doesn't appear to be much better. I like the idea of the Mazda 5 (we already own a 3-hatchback), but the Mrs. thinks it would be too small.

  We live in Idaho and deal with snow in the winters and occasionally take trips to the mountains where ground clearance and real 4wd are valued. Those trips are infrequent enough that renting an SUV for the occasion would not be out of the question.

  My parents have a ski boat that we sometimes tow, but they usually have a tow vehicle available if needed. Again, it would be nice to have the ability, but it's not a deal breaker.

  Based on the criteria I have narrowed the selection to either rolling the dice on an Odyssey, Sienna or paying the gas bill for a Tahoe, Yukon or Suburban of the 2001 - 2005 vintage. Which of these approaches makes more sense?

  The GM utes appeal to me since they seem more shade-tree mechanic friendly, parts seem to be cheaper (especially transmissions) and if I ever wreck it I have a LS motor ready for a swap.

  The vans are appealing for their gas mileage, family-friendly layout, and perceived reliability.

  We're not in the market for a brand-new warrantied vehicle so high-mileage reliability is the real issue here. Will the Asian van's reliability prevail over the American SUV's fuel consumption and reliability?

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  Feb. 2, 2011 11:08 a.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

  AWD Chevy Astro/GMC Safari made until 2005.
  4.3L Vortec V6 with a tow capacity of about 5,000lbs
  

  Samples:
  http://boise.craigslist.org/ctd/2189589562.html
  http://boise.craigslist.org/ctd/2190181191.html

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  Feb. 2, 2011 11:18 a.m. internetautomart SuperDork

  I'd go for a GM minivan. their worst issue is the intake manifold gasket. 95% of their parts are available from delco so that is a good thing. towing with them (or a sienna/odyssey) is not a good idea. on the mopar vans I wouldn't go older than an 08 because of the strut tower rust issues that happen in 96-07 models.

  Now I'm working for myself and making no money

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  Feb. 2, 2011 11:24 a.m. failboat Reader

  I second the Astro/Safari. It's also bigger than all the minivans you mentioned. More of a midsize van really.

  Personally I just bought a higher milage 98 Mazda MPV 4wd. I realize in many respects the Astro AWD is probably the better van. I already had a chevy van a few years ago and wanted to try something different, besides, whens the last time you saw a 1st gen MPV?

  boosh.

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  Feb. 2, 2011 11:28 a.m. internetautomart SuperDork

  Astro is not significantly larger inside than any of the aforementioned vans. I took a tape measure to our caravan and my father-in-laws astro because he was under the same misconception. Caravan was TALLER inside than the astro was.

  Now I'm working for myself and making no money

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  Feb. 2, 2011 11:33 a.m. steelynorm New Reader

  I own or have recently owned a 2004 yukon, 1997 landcruiser, 2000 landcruiser and a 2005 Sienna.

  Here is my take:

  MPG: No contest Sienna gets us from Sac to LA on one tank of gas with a little left for running around town. Driveability: Sienna handles better and is more maneuverable Comfort: Sienna with captains chairs is uber comfortable for kids and especially bigger kids because they can really stretch out compared to yukon and landcruisers, the third row in an SUV is punishment for two bigger kids but in a van it is a non issue, because they recline a little bit also. Reliability: Same, i have 120k miles on my Sienna with no issues, but I had 180k on my Yukon. Storage: Sienna with the seats folded down can haul so much more than my Yukon. Its design allows it to handle larger and bulkier items as well. Towing: SUVS are way better at towing, i have towed small things with my van but my SUVS were tons better

  My wife hates it, my daughter despises it and I well i appreciate it for what it is the best 6 person mover by far that i have ever owned.. the Sienna.

  Kind of like a Miata you have to be man enough to drive one.

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  Feb. 2, 2011 11:33 a.m. failboat Reader

  hmm. i guess the astro appears much larger, and taller, gotta fit the drivedrain under the flat floor inside the van.

  the fwd do have the advantage of not having to tuck the rear diff underneath the floor.

  the mpv floor actually steps up a few inches in the back to clear the rear axle. sometimes inconvenient.

  boosh.

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  Feb. 2, 2011 11:46 a.m. jstein77 Dork

  Believe it or not, the Kia Sedona is actually a pretty good van. My wife bought hers new in 2004, and it's been very reliable for her. 100,000 mile drivetrain warantee FTW; no worries about the trans.

  Jerry in Melbourne

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  Feb. 2, 2011 11:57 a.m. ArthurDent Reader

  The one that often gets overlooked is the 2004+ Nissan Quest. We've had ours for five or six years now and no major issues. A few little things here and there but the transmissions seem solid. Rear brakes don't seem to last as long as they should but otherwise I'm happy. The later ones have slightly nicer interiors too. The styling is different which I like but may not be a plus for others. The biggest van you could get for the time period (I've had a Locost frame INSIDE the van). Tows 3500lbs too.

  

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  Feb. 2, 2011 12:05 p.m. NGTD HalfDork

  Are the early Ford Edge's getting down toward your budget range where you are?

  They are basically a 4wd minivan.

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  Feb. 2, 2011 12:32 p.m. DrBoost SuperDork

  internetautomart wrote: I'd go for a GM minivan. their worst issue is the intake manifold gasket. 95% of their parts are available from delco so that is a good thing. towing with them (or a sienna/odyssey) is not a good idea. on the mopar vans I wouldn't go older than an 08 because of the strut tower rust issues that happen in 96-07 models.

  I could be wrong, but I was told that Chrysler would repair those. If you aren't the original owner it'd be $100 deductable????? I found this out after my wife sold out last Caravan. I loved that thing. It was a hot-rodded minivan that could run with a 4.6L Mustang all day long and handle just as well. But when I was those strut towers I said it's gotta go. My bro-in-law had his fixed (he was the 100th owner or something) at the dealer under the program.

  You know you are deep in boost territory when you get tire pressures and boost pressures confused

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  Feb. 2, 2011 1:09 p.m. tuna55 Dork

  The MPVs get terrible mileage. Most minivans aren't much better. I am at the same junction and seesawing between a 6.5 diesel suburban and a Ford Freestyle. The Astro, even with the 4.3, also gets terrible mileage. Better off with a Suburban.

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  Feb. 2, 2011 1:15 p.m. patgizz SuperDork

  the astro doesnt get terrible mileage for what it is.

  what else with a gas engine can carry 7-8 people, have all wheel drive, can tow 5,000 lbs, and will get you 19-20mpg.

  i always hover around 20 with them.
  

  maybe i have a different perspective because my work truck gets 8-9.

  When I grow up, I want to be just like Colt McCoy

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  Feb. 2, 2011 1:59 p.m. mw HalfDork

  I'm in a similar situation and looking for a diesel excursion for the best of both worlds.

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  Feb. 2, 2011 2:07 p.m. twolittlebroncos Reader

  Steelynorm - thanks for the Sienna sales pitch. :)

  I think that summarizes how I feel about the whole concept. The Sienna and Odyssey seem like such gems. Wifes, kids and even dads love them. I'm man enough to drive one, I'm just worried about whether or not I'm rich enough to keep one on the road.

  I've been pitching the Astro idea to my wife for a long time now and it's not going to happen. That ad for the van with 133k miles for $2500 is crazy good and I will take another shot at selling the idea to my wife.

  I will look into the Quest and the Edge.

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  Feb. 2, 2011 2:45 p.m. dculberson Reader

  My experience with an Astro averaged around 23mpg with the 4.3 V6. Compared to a Suburban, that's Prius territory.

  The Sienna is a good van; the engines are in the "oil sludge" risk group so if the oil changes haven't been regular I would worry about that. They have a reputation for transmission issues, but I would be that as a percentage it's not actually that bad. They've just sold so dang many of them.

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  Feb. 2, 2011 3:20 p.m. Otto Maddox HalfDork

  I'd get a Sienna or an Odyssey. The transmissions on Odysseys were fine by 2004. Sienna transmissions have always been more reliable than average.

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  Feb. 2, 2011 5:37 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  I personally wouldn't dirty my butt with a Sienna or an Odyssey simply because I run a chain of transmission shops. If you do get one, that would be the only time I recommend an aftermarket warranty. You'll be using it. In fact I just took in an 01 Odyssey today with 92k and its pretty much trashed. At least three solenoids failed and the fluid looks like chocolate syrup.

  04 and up are better, but they are more or less band-aid fixes.

  Have you considered a diesel Excursion? Its a Suburban-size but the 01-03 diesels are the bulletproof 7.3. Tow anything and enjoy 20-22 mpg empty. A bit overkill, but oh so sexy.

  I'm bringing sexy back

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  Feb. 2, 2011 5:54 p.m. Vigo Dork

  Caravan was TALLER inside than the astro was.

  Aside from the doghouse/footwell area, thats my least favorite thing about astros.. stupid high floor kills the interior space vs the fwds.
  

  Diesel excursion.. its kind of in a league of it's own but i agree it's overkill in most cases. Would the wife be happy trying to step into/drive/park/u-turn something like that? At least the transmissions a good one.

  Chrysler vans with the 3.3/3.8 are ridiculously reliable if you take care of them (i.e. trans cooler and fluid changes). Of all the 604/606s and now 42rle's ive owned, the only one i ever broke ANYTHING on was by putting too much power through 4th gear at 130 mph. Ive had others up to ~240k with nothing other than normal wear and tear (hard seals, etc).

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