Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » The coolness of an old Westfalia 1 2 3 4 5

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  Nov. 22, 2011 11:48 a.m. Keith SuperDork

  Am I nuts? Janel and I are seriously considering picking up a VW camper. For, you know, camping. Not for motorsports Something we can have in the driveway ready to go so that if we get the idea to head for Crested Butte to go mountain biking, it's easy. Plus it makes both of us smile.

  We're looking at a 1978. It's a late "bay window" model, which means it's just before they went to the squared-off Vanagon. Everything seems to work just fine, and apparently the engine was rebuilt about 1000 miles ago. The body looks to be very clean. Not rust free, but after 20 minutes of looking I'd only found a little bit inside the front wheel well. Ahh, the joys of the Southwest.

  Am I nuts? I've never owned an aircooled VW before. Is the fuel injection something to be scared of, or it is a step up from carbs? As far as I can tell, this should be a fairly solid little bus. If we don't like it, we'll sell it.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 11:51 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

  I couldn't imagine trying to hoof that thing around at some of the elevations up there.

  My Miata felt SLOW at the top of Grande Mesa, that thing would be..... (would it even get up there?)

  SCAVENGE THE SEA FLOOR FOR NUTRIENTS

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  Nov. 22, 2011 11:54 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

  Good idea, poor vehicle choice.

  You want something that can tow a Miata or a motorcycle so when you want to enjoy the forest from the camper you can and then 3 days in when you want to go into town for a hot shower, decent meal and drink you don't have to pack up the whole place to drive it there.

  Lord of drivel and harbinger of Floundering

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:09 p.m. monark192 Reader

  Great idea - not very big as far as campers go (plenty of room to pack a tent though). Buddy of mine had one with the license plate "NOHILLS." I harbor a crazy dream of driving around the coast of Europe for a summer in one.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:12 p.m. tpwalsh New Reader

  We had a BABE version, though it came with a rebuilt motor. Seriously slow. No slower than that. Think never hitting the speed limit.. ever. If you can deal with that it'll make you smile every time you drive it, in a serious non motorsports kind of way. Also can you live with being a crumble zone? At least a late bay model has front disk brakes. The 4 wheel drums can get kind of scary at grades over ~10%. They were only good for about 2 really good pumps of the brake and then they were done. 8-10% is also about where the bus started to roll down hills/mountains faster than the engine could keep in check.

  I can't comment on the FI vs. carbs since I've never driven/worked on a FI version.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:13 p.m. pinchvalve SuperDork

  This.

  "Don't Sweat the Petty Things." Yes, and Don't Pet the Sweaty Things.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:18 p.m. Maroon92 SuperDork

  That 2.0 is slow in a 914, I can't imagine a less powerful version in a full sized bus.

  I hate type 4s, but if taken care of, they can be downright reliable.

  XBL GamerTag: bcbrownell Racing is the process of turning money into noise.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:21 p.m. Ojala Reader

  Get a Westfalia if you want a Westfalia and nothing else will do. If you just want a camper van get an Astro conversion or any other number of other used small RVs. I dumped a lot of time and effort into a 71 Westie that I converted to fuel injection and used as my daily. At the time I was going to college in Utah, and the ambiance is nice for going on camping trips with a girl in the desert on the weekend. But the engine is the wrong choice for moving a big box up a grade in the mountains.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:21 p.m. Maroon92 SuperDork

  Maroon92 wrote: That 2.0 is slow in a 914, I can't imagine a less powerful version in a full sized bus. I hate type 4s, but if taken care of, they can be downright reliable.

  Speaking of 914s being slow, I once was told an "anecdote" that seems apt here.

  "I was driving my 914 at Watkins Glen last week, when I got a bit hungry. I called to order a pizza from the toe of the boot. It was delivered around the esses, and I had consumed it by the time I got to the Outer Loop."

  XBL GamerTag: bcbrownell Racing is the process of turning money into noise.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:27 p.m. jstein77 Dork

  If you ask if you're nuts twice in the same post, then you must be.

  Unfortunately, Mazda doesn't make a camper.

  Jerry in Melbourne

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:29 p.m. kreb Dork

  There's a guy in town here that makes a decent living putting 6 cylinder Subbies into those things

  http://www.thebuslab.com/

  That's what it'd take to get me on board.

  It is better to wear out than to rust out.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:30 p.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

  1. buy westy
     
  2. install corvair powertrain
  3. enjoy

  or

  1. buy westy
  2. install turbo
  3. enjoy

  there's a guy in Golden CO named Steve Goodman, runs a shop called Rear Engine Specialists. he can make this happen.

  if you're gonna be a bear.... be a grizzly bear!

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:32 p.m. Datsun1500 SuperDork

  You are much better off with a newer Eurovan. Slow does not even begin to get the point across. Think 50 MPH top speed on the flat, less on hills. 67HP/3300 pounds.

  I just noticed I was a Super Dork. What do I win?

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:38 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  I'm not a marque snob. The only Mazdas in my driveway are Miatas

  I know it'll be slow. But it didn't feel much slower than my old Subaru did. That thing would cruise at about 70 WOT on the level interstate, and going up big passes I could usually keep pace with a semi. And I also have an old Land Rover that has a dyno-proven 33 hp at the wheels. While there are three vehicles in the garage with 400 hp, not all of them are monsters. I am fully capable of kicking back and relaxing as we motor along.

  The ambience of the Westie is a big appeal. I'm sorry, but an Astro does nothing for me. Nothing towed, either - Janel's lived with towed campers in the past and is aggressively not interested. Same goes for dragging along a dingy Miata or motorcycle. Small and self-contained is the goal, and the speed at which a Westie can be set up/torn down is pretty good.

  The alternative is a tent thrown in the back of the pickup. Doesn't have to be torn down if we want to go anywhere, but it's also higher effort. The inertia of pulling everything together keeps us from doing it.

  I've seen what's involved in a Scooby swap. A coworker just finished one on an aircooled Vanagon. It's nowhere near as cheap or as easy as you think. At the end, he's got about $7k into it and that includes a $500 VW. It also took a huge amount of effort.

  I got the 1978 in question up to 60 mph without too much drama in the city. I backed out due to an upcoming traffic circle, but there was more in it.

  I dunno. I've got too many needy vehicles right now as it is. But we had so much fun on the test drive...

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:40 p.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

  Westie + Porsche 6 cylinder?

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:41 p.m. Joe Gearin Associate Publisher

  I've always loved Westies. I'd come close to buying a few over the years but the "right one" never was available when I had the funds. Then I bought my Ford van, and it does everything better than a Westie could, except being as cute and charming.

  The VWs don't really have the power to deal with steep grades like you encounter in CO all the time. They are also horrid in strong crosswinds. If you really have your heart set on one, I'd lower it a bit, and put a Subie 4cyl in there. It is a documented swap that many folks have done successfully. There are also Porsche 6cyl swaps, but the Subie one seems most logical.

  Look for rust at the bottom of the windshield, in the heat channels, and throughout the bottom. I prefer the carb set-up to the FI, but that's just me. The Westies are getting worth $$$ these days, so buy the most original one you can find (especially interior wise).

  Good luck! I'm happy with my Ford. It ain't as cute, but it will climb a hill and tow a car / boat with ease.

  And it has a toilet! Which can come in VERY handy!

  
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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:45 p.m. Xceler8x SuperDork

  The speed thing can be fixed. You've proven you're more than capable over the long haul in dealing with power deficiencies.

  For camping it does pay to have a roof over your head and air between you and the ground amirite? Then, with the Westie, you have a camp stove and a rudimentary kitchen right? Is it the pop-up top type? Like this:

  If it floats your boat I say go for it. Not everything has to be fast. Not everything has to be new and perfect. I can see the utility in having all your crap stowed and turn-key ready for quick blast into the hills.

  I'm sure you're already on the Westie boards learning all you can about them. That's my first step when considering a new ride I'm unfamiliar with.

  You are what you do, when it counts.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:48 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

  A while back I bought a mid 70s (74?) bay window non-Westy from a buddy. The body was really clean, hardly a spec of rust, and it had been sitting for years. It fired up with a squirt of fuel into the top end, so I assumed his tale of it needing the Weber rebuilt and needing regasketed really bad was accurate. As it turns out, my buddy was clueless and it had a hole in a piston. He became a much less trusted buddy after that. Long story short, I became more familiar with type 4 engines than I ever wanted to be. After I got the engine running, I found that the trans was shot and got to swap that out as well. I also installed shifter bushings, rebuilt the carb, replaced the distributor, installed seat covers, fixed several electrical problems, rewired the engine bay, and of course the type of detail you'd expect a car that's sat outside for years to need. In other words, it was a horrible, horrible idea for a flip. If it had been running and driving, I probably wouldn't have had so many surprises, but I learned a lot on that bus and of course I brought a "classic" back to life and the person who bought it valued my efforts.

  I've worked on many Bugs and Ghias and even some earlier busses, but the bay window was WAY, WAY worse to work on than those. The engine tins alone were enough to make me swear off never getting another type 4 engine powered vehicle again. There's a reason that Vanagons and split window busses go for way more money than bay windows. The bay window is not a great vehicle in terms of performance, maintenance, reliability, and in many people's eyes, styling. Not a lot going for them. At least with a split window they're a little more simple and better looking. The Vanagons are a much better performer and more reliable. I guess you have to pick your poison, and I think the only thing the bay window has going for it is purchase price and (depending on the person) styling.

  Bryce

  Portland, OR | '69 Bug | '05 Saabaru | '67 122S | '07 Sky Redline | $2009 AWD Fiero Hybrid | $2011 N600 | '00 Insight

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  Nov. 22, 2011 12:52 p.m. Gasoline Reader

  I had a carb one, bought with camping in mind. Turned out to be uncool, really too slow and small. Had to camp in real camp-ground spots and yearned for more remote spots with enough stuff for more days. Always carried a spare fuel pump and seemed to change it out every trip. I even trailered a pop-up 1 time. If I did it again:

  Ford 4X4 Van

  Joe Gearin wrote: ........And it has a toilet! Which can come in VERY handy!

  Very wise. Camping is not nearly as much fun after the wife has used the "Bumper Dumper" a time or two.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 1:22 p.m. driver109x HalfDork

  The 4wd version looks kinda cool. But i prefer the regular van with a 911 turbo motor on fuchs...

  Those who say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" just don't get it.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 1:26 p.m. GTwannaB Reader

  Wouldn't you be better of with a Previa and do a camper conversion?

  

  Still unique and cool, but more of an actual mode of transportation.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 1:38 p.m. 914Driver SuperDork

  If you need a Westie, go for an engine transplant. I've seen 911 motors in them, heard about Subies, 'Vairs and even 944 3ngines; but here's a Jetta transplant.

  With a water buffalo you will have heat.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RV6hmULECQ

  BMW -- You don't need a hibachi to cook rice.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 1:41 p.m. Toyman01 SuperDork

  They can definitely be made fast. I got passed by one on the interstate the other day. He had to be running 85. I cringed as he went by, just waiting for a rod or piston to come flying through the window at me.

  I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me.

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  Nov. 22, 2011 1:46 p.m. pete240z SuperDork

  those old VW campers are starting to hold their value. Buy it, camp in it, and you can probably sell it for the same price or better.

  Datsun Pete

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  Nov. 22, 2011 1:48 p.m. bludroptop SuperDork

  I've owned a couple of them. Most of the negative comments in this thread are accurate - slow to the point where you have to think two steps ahead, a handful in cross-winds, awkward access to the motor, etc. I don't think anyone mentioned crash safety, and probably best if we don't go there...

  That said, I get the appeal, and I'd own another in a heartbeat if I could justify another vehicle that barely gets driven - have enough of those already!

  The bay window is modern enough (barely) to be driven in today's world, something that can't be said for the earlier, and possibly even cooler split window. The bay window is also more attractively priced than both the earlier and later generation Westy.

  I say scratch the itch, don't dump a lot of money into it, enjoy it for a while and if/when you grow tired of it - you'll get your money back.

  I'm half tempted to buy one just for a two week OBX vacation and then sell it upon return to the real world.

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