Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Targa Newfoundland 2009 is on! 1 2 3 4 5 6

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  Sept. 13, 2009 5:43 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  Sadly, they didn't wait for me But 60 cars ran the prologue today. Should be an interesting race, partly because of the presence of Stillen's vaunted GTR. Will he dominate? Will the nature of the event take him down? Based on the start times for Leg 1, I think he was fastest over the (fast and smooth) Flatrock stage used for seeding with a Group B Quattro right behind him. I do wonder how the Nissan will deal with some of the really rough stuff - the cars have done well in Tasmania, but their roads are better than the Newfoundland ones as far as I know. Sprongl's Audi is Open class so he's going to have to run a bit faster than Stillen to avoid penalties. Could be a good race.

  Like so many others, I like to play the "what car would be the ideal Targa car?" game. Since the race is handicapped, older cars can have an advantage. Statistically speaking, a 1994 Miata in the Modified class has a real disadvantage. Class 4 gets approximately 15% more time to finish a stage than my class did, because the cars are theoretically slower. Meanwhile, my Class 8 car only got an extra 5% more time over an Open car, the fastest class. Too bad I started playing this game after the race Probably wouldn't have changed the car I ran, but it does mean I'd be very tempted to run in Open if I went back. Triple the horsepower and torque in the same platform and only a 5% time penalty? I like that math.

  Anyhow, I think one of the best potential cars would be a Mk1 Escort with a 1600 BDA engine. Light weight, small size, excellent power, 40 years of honing in British forests and old enough to run in Class 4. Doesn't hurt that they look awesome and sound even better. And one of my class competitors from last year figured this out - here's his beastie. I'm rooting for him. The lights are totally gratuitous as the Targa is a daytime event, but I wouldn't take them off either

  

  Daily pictures can be found at http://pics.spoon.org/gallery2/v/Motorsports/Targa/Daily2009/, and results are posted at http://www.targanewfoundland.com/results/. You can tell how the Prologue went by the start order for Leg 1 - fast cars go to the back. Cars that didn't put down a time go at the very back. Apparently Marc Lachapelle crashed his WRX, so I suspect the four last cars didn't put down times. The start times are based on raw speed, not on penalties, so you do have to pay attention to the classification. The first digit of the car number indicates class, higher is faster but 1 is Open.

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  Sept. 13, 2009 5:50 p.m. vazbmw Reader

  I am running to the DVR

  Used to be Vazx16

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  Sept. 13, 2009 6:01 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  To watch the 2008 event, I assume, there's no live coverage

  I just found the raw times for the Prologue - it's a different timing setup than last year (well, last year I read the sheets posted up on the board, but still...). Looks like Stillen was indeed fastest on the Flatrock stage by about 5 seconds. However, Jud Buchanan in his monster Acadian was only 12 seconds back, and Jud runs in class 4. Jud's finished 2nd a bunch of times, will this be his year? Looks as if the Escort finished only 2 seconds behind last year's winners, the 2002 - but with that car in 4 MS Large and the Escort in 4 MS Small, that means the Escort is ahead.

  Not that today's times mean anything other than to determine a starting order.

  For those who want to geek out on the math, here are the handicap factors. A base time for class 9 MS Large is set, then multiplied by the factor for each class.

  

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Sept. 13, 2009 7:35 p.m. cwh Dork

  Turks and Caicos Motoring Club??? That boy covered some miles to get to Canada!!

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  Sept. 13, 2009 7:47 p.m. aussiesmg SuperDork

  MkI Escorts FTW

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  Sept. 13, 2009 7:57 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  Yeah, a couple of teams from the club were there last year as well. They loaded up two cars and a big support trailer (and possibly a tow vehicle) into a boat and shipped them up. Both teams were very cool, but I think it's possible their budget had an extra zero in it than ours did

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Sept. 13, 2009 8:46 p.m. HiTempguy Reader

  I really wish they'd stop running Targa on the same weekend as Rallye Defi... which apparently they will next year!

  Now if only Targa Canada West wasn't running their event during the same time as the Rocky Mountain Rally. When will they learn?

  Rallying; It's like skydiving, except you have to dodge trees on your way down!

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  Sept. 13, 2009 9:20 p.m. pigeon Reader

  Sorry, but I have to root for Roy Hopkins and Adrienne Hughes for the 3-peat in Woodstock, their well-sorted BMW 2002 - they're members of my local BMWCCA chapter and really great people.

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  Sept. 13, 2009 9:21 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  If only TCW wasn't on the same weekend as my wedding anniversary. Janel's understanding, but I'm not sure I can push that. At least, not until I take her on a honeymoon...

  Pictures from the Prologue are up.

  We have liftoff!

  An unlikely rally car. They're doing the Grand Touring class, more of a TSD than a performance rally. Still...

  

  Good to see this little guy back. He crashed on the first day of the race last year and the car got cut up to extract the navigator.

  Not a reassuring sight for your mirrors.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Sept. 14, 2009 8:22 a.m. aussiesmg SuperDork

  sigh, one of my dreams, one day

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  Sept. 14, 2009 8:33 a.m. alfadriver HalfDork

  Instead of the Escort, I'd lean toward a GTA. On paved roads, the Alfa was pretty dominant in the day. Now, if I could only afford one....

  More than likely, I'll have to settle for a buddies Giulia Ti or my GTV.

  E-

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  Sept. 14, 2009 11:25 a.m. Keith SuperDork

  The roads in Newfoundland can be pretty bad - I'm waiting to see how Stillen deals with them, as that car's pretty low. The Subaru guys run gravel suspension at the lowest setting, to give you an idea. So a car developed for rallying seems to have an advantage. We'll see how the GTR does.

  There was a 1974 GTV running in Touring last year. The car had instrumentation in miles, the route books were in kilometers. So not only did the team have to keep the Alfa running and deal with the difficulties of the race, they had to translate every single distance to miles. Huge effort.

  Apparently the Subaru will be starting today, that's good news. It's showing up on the live tracking at the stages. It hit the wall in the same spot that claimed an MG a few years ago - IIRC, that MG was the winner of the GRM contest for a free entry.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Sept. 14, 2009 12:02 p.m. Carson Dork

  Gah! I can't believe it's Targa time again already!

  Keith, what is a realistic budget to run (and finish)? Not looking to be competitive (sure, I say that now) but this has definitely been a long time dream of mine.

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  Sept. 14, 2009 1:14 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  I laid that out in a previous thread. It's not cheap - that's why I'm here in Colorado instead of battling the bad weather in Newfoundland today.

  The biggest potential place to save money (other than the car itself) would be the accomodations. The Alfa team booked their own and probably saved some coin - but in some of the small towns, all the hotels are booked solid. We stayed close to the arenas every night, wheras I know at least some people had a 45 minute commute to get to their hotel in one town. I would not have been able to sacrifice 90 minutes of precious sleep!

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Sept. 14, 2009 3:50 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  Sorry guys, I'm going to keep on with this commentary about the Targa. Because I'm suffering from terrible withdrawl and because nobody else will listen. So if you're not interested, click on...

  Leg 1 is over! According to the results, 13 cars zeroed the day. That's about the same as last year. Raw times haven't been posted yet, and there are a couple of surprises. Previous modern class winner Jim Kenzie is way down with 39 seconds in penalties and Doug Mepham has 1:07. To put that in perspective, the winner last year had 45 seconds of penalties over the entire week. Jim's sorting out a new race car after his MINI was written off last year, and he was commenting on a lack of traction yesterday.

  I've heard the weather was pretty bad today. The base times are adjusted to take this into account.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Sept. 14, 2009 4:36 p.m. mrhappy New Reader

  vazbmw wrote: I am running to the DVR

  What channel is this coming on?

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  Sept. 14, 2009 5:05 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  It'll be on Speed TV in March or so.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Sept. 14, 2009 5:39 p.m. jgp1843 HalfDork

  My guess is that the Stillen-prepared car will do well, due to Steve Millen's experience. Steve is Rod Millen's brother, and although Steve's specialty was pavement circuit racing, he also has considerable rally experience, both driving and preparation.

  Stillen is the name of Steve Millen's business.

  He'll be fast.

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  Sept. 14, 2009 6:33 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  That's certainly what Stillen wants us to think There's a lot of publicity and excitement around this car, it has all the horsepower and traction in the world and a good driver. I think the battle between it and Sprongl in the Group B Audi could be good. It was the fastest through the prologue - but my concern is that the car's set up for smoother pavement than they'll find in Newfoundland. As I never stop telling people, we hit a speed bump at full throttle at 80 mph last year - and it wasn't in the stage notes because it wasn't really notable enough to mention. Then I look at this picture and I wonder how well the car will deal with the big hits. The Flatrock prologue stage is pretty smooth and there's at least one stage per day that beggars belief when it comes to road surface.

  I know he's experienced, but it's possible his navigator isn't He may have a reporter riding shotgun, I'm not sure.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Sept. 14, 2009 6:40 p.m. RoadWarrior New Reader

  Man....kinda makes me want to visit newfoundland and see the fam.

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  Sept. 14, 2009 8:41 p.m. superblackser None

  Ok, ok, already - the car is "low" in that photo. Don't you think Steve knows the course? He's no fool when it comes to something as obvious as rougher track and change-up on the suspension. What you have said something like three times at least in this thread is "Steve Millen may not be thinking about rough pavement".
  

  I don't think so. I do know what you mean, I hit a 6"+ frost heave at night a few years ago at a bit over 100 mph. Completely caught by surprise, in my '04 G35C, smashed my head into the roof, took the rears to the bump stops with 400 lbs/in springs, and left some reminders in the zero lift underbody bits. Other than my pride no serious damage, I was running 18's at the time with OEM rims and not even a bent rim. Sore head, must have ahem, forgotten my helmet...yeah, that's my story and I am sticking to it.

  Valid concerns, which is why I think he's probably already thought of them. Great event, maybe when I don't have to choose between sending my kids to college and Targa :)

  I'm rooting for the RNN14 GTiR Nissan, that car looks so dialed in :D

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  Sept. 14, 2009 8:52 p.m. superblackser New Reader

  Keith wrote: That's certainly what Stillen wants us to think

  IDK about that either. Steve strikes me as a very practical, no BS kind of guy. I think what, if anything, he "wants us to think" starts and ends with a podium finish. Let the results speak for themselves. Sure he's a good marketer, you have to be to have landed all the rides he had over the years and build his business. A serious competitor w/o being an ass about it But seriously, if there is a pretentious side there, I didn't see it, and I spent about half a day on and off talking to him up in NH a few years back. Other than creaming me in my then new Z with an old Sharp CP racer (probably could have done it in a Smart for 2), he was a right nice guy.
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  Sept. 14, 2009 9:15 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  Note that my comment was referencing "Stillen". The marketing behind this effort is pretty wound up and has been for a while. Steve Millen may be the coolest guy in the world - never met him - but the firm is pulling out all the stops and is forecasting a win. As they should, of course. But I'm not going to automatically hand them the win. Remember, Sprongl and the Group B Audi was supposed to walk away with the event last year.

  superblackser wrote: Ok, ok, already - the car is "low" in that photo. Don't you think Steve knows the course?

  I don't know if he does. The car's been low every time I've seen a photo of it, and that's the only shot I've seen of it in Newfoundland so far. It could be the size of the car making it look lower than it is, of course, and maybe they do have plans to lift it for the rough stages somehow. But the road conditions in Newfoundland aren't like California, and I don't know if Steve made any sighting trips.

  Just checked, here are two pictures from the Stillen site. The caption for this one is "STILLEN GT-R as it exists prepped for the Targa Newfoundland, with the full rally preparation finished."

  And this one, taken in Newfoundland on scrutineering day. That looks more like it.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Sept. 14, 2009 9:17 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  Photos for Leg 1 are up. This one looks like the first stage. Excitement!

  

  This guy showed a real turn of speed in the Prologue, and he's got a big handicap on his side. Could be one to watch.

  

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Sept. 14, 2009 10:01 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  On that same page where I found the picture of the lifted GTR is a video from Steve Millen explaining how they found the car was too low and too soft for the Newfoundland roads. The big picture I posted earlier was during the Friday school, before they made the changes. The car got new springs, a taller ride height and a new alignment. Cool, that should do the team well.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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