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  Oct. 24, 2009 5:17 p.m. M030 Reader

  Can anyone tell me, definitively, if a 9-3 engine will work in a 9-5 that had a 2.3 Turbo 4 cyl?

  I've spoken to three SAAB "experts" and two say yes, but the one who has been at it the longest says "no way; the engine will bolt in but you'll never get it to run.."

  I've been looking for a complete, running parts car and, while 9-3s are abundant, finding a 9-5 for parts is proving difficult...

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  Oct. 24, 2009 5:35 p.m. mtn SuperDork

  Why isn't the current engine working? There is a good chance that if you have all records (or most anyways) to prove that the car was taken care of, you are in for a free engine from GM. I think that the (extended) warranty is only good until ten years from the original purchase date.

  Its gonna be hard to find a 9-5 running parts car. They had a kinda big oil sludge problem. Otherwise, it shouldn't be too hard. We had a big ordeal with ours, and while looking at prices to figure out what we wanted to do with it, I remember a bunch in the sub 1000 dollar range that were in good condition except the engine seized; once again, the oil sludge.

  I think we looked into this when our engine bit the dust, and I want to say that the answer was yes, but it wasn't the easiest swap. This is all just getting SAAB mechanic opinions; we weren't going to do it ourselves.

  Shameless for sale plug that doesn't nearly fit your bill: If you are interested in a running 9-5 2.3 in GREAT condition, we have one that is kind of always for sale. The engine was brand new in January of this year; it has less than 10,000 miles on it. Entire car has 100,000 something. Everything that needs/needed to be changed has been done. When the engine went out, it sat at a SAAB dealer until a brand new factory engine arrived and they put it in. Its in damn near perfect shape, we're looking for about $6500 OBO

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  Oct. 24, 2009 6:50 p.m. M030 Reader

  mtn wrote: if you have all records (or most anyways) to prove that the car was taken care of, you are in for a free engine from GM. I think that the (extended) warranty is only good until ten years from the original purchase date. Its gonna be hard to find a 9-5 running parts car. They had a kinda big oil sludge problem.

  My car came with no records at all and a big hole where the engine was. I bought it from a dealer who bought it six years ago at a SAAB Financial auction, with a sludged engine, hoping that he could get it fixed under warranty.

  When SAAB denied the warranty claim, said dealer simply shoved the car behind the shop, where it sat until I (foolishly) bought it. It's a 2000 9-5 with 46,000 miles on it.

  I want to make it run as inexpensively as possible. No MegaSquirt, no LS1 swaps, etc. Ideally I'll buy another whole SAAB, be it a 9-3 or a 9-5 that's either crashed or has a bad transmission (or both), then use the second whole SAAB for parts to get my 9-5 running.

  Are the 9-3 and 9-5 engines really that different?

  - Brian

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  Oct. 24, 2009 10:32 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  are the 9000s and 9-5 all that different? I know of a yard with several 9000s with engines of unknown quality, but you could probably rebuild them.

  German, Italian, Swedish, Collecting Europe one car at a time

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  Oct. 24, 2009 10:33 p.m. mtn SuperDork

  M030 wrote: Are the 9-3 and 9-5 engines really that different?

  This is what I didn't understand when our "expert" said that it wasn't worth it. I was actually under the impression that a lot of the 9-3's came with a 2.3... the same exact one. I didn't pursue it because we were able to get the engine replaced under warranty.

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  Oct. 24, 2009 10:37 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  good point.. and we all know how much GM loves to build a dozen cars with the same drivetrain and underpinnings. It seems that in the very interests of cost cutting, the 9-3 and the 9-5 would be very similar

  German, Italian, Swedish, Collecting Europe one car at a time

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  Oct. 24, 2009 10:43 p.m. 02Pilot New Reader

  The differences are probably in the engine management system, with all that that entails. I know all the 9-5s used the T7, while the 9-3s used the T5 for at least a year or two longer. It's been a while since I've dealt with SAAB, so I'm a little fuzzy on the year cutoffs.

  Too bad you weren't looking for a parts 9-5 a couple years ago - I had one with a bad transmission but a fine, unsludged engine with updated PCV for sale cheap.

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  Oct. 25, 2009 2:04 a.m. procainestart Dork

  I'm pretty sure that the only first-gen 9-3s to get a 2.3L engine were Viggens.

  My parts catalog, which unfortunately only goes to MY01, shows the same block for 98-01 9-3 and 9-5 (the 2.3L is stroked; same bore).

  You could contact this place http://www.jzwtuning.com/index.html. (I have an acquaintance who T5'd a c900t and was very pleased with the tuning JZW did for the car.) He probably knows as much as anyone about Trionic in the U.S. I suggest a tuner because (a) he'll know definitively, and (b) if the only way to run the 2L engine with a 9-5 Trionic box is to reflash it with a stock 2L tune, then he's the guy to do it for you.

  You could also ask here: http://forum.ecuproject.com/viewforum.php?f=19 ECU Project is devoted to hacking Saab ECUs.

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  Oct. 25, 2009 1:11 p.m. M030 Reader

  mad_machine wrote: GM loves to build a dozen cars with the same drivetrain and underpinnings. It seems that in the very interests of cost cutting, the 9-3 and the 9-5 would be very similar

  That's what I'm hoping. \

  Any idea as to why there are so many crappy-but-running 9-3s out there for under $1000, but virtually no (running) 9-5s? If the 9-3's 2.0 is a better engine than the 2.3 in the 9-5, maybe I will really try to pursue the 9-3 2.0L swap...

  - Brian

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  Oct. 25, 2009 1:41 p.m. mtn SuperDork

  M030 wrote:

  mad_machine wrote: GM loves to build a dozen cars with the same drivetrain and underpinnings. It seems that in the very interests of cost cutting, the 9-3 and the 9-5 would be very similar

  That's what I'm hoping. \

  Any idea as to why there are so many crappy-but-running 9-3s out there for under $1000, but virtually no (running) 9-5s? If the 9-3's 2.0 is a better engine than the 2.3 in the 9-5, maybe I will really try to pursue the 9-3 2.0L swap...

  I'm not entirely sure that the 2.0 is a better engine than the 2.3. The oil sludge problem was supposed to have been fixed in that engine, and we haven't had any further trouble in it. 30 MPG average, as well. How much power does the 2.0 put out? I'd be worried of it feeling like a dog.

  Also, the 9-5 has been a great car as far as usability goes. Feels like a midsize, interior space of a full size, great gas mileage, sporty enough... even though i should be smart enough not to, if I found one for the right price, I'd buy another in a heartbeat.

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  Oct. 25, 2009 3:52 p.m. procainestart Dork

  mtn wrote: I'm not entirely sure that the 2.0 is a better engine than the 2.3. The oil sludge problem was supposed to have been fixed in that engine, and we haven't had any further trouble in it. 30 MPG average, as well. How much power does the 2.0 put out? I'd be worried of it feeling like a dog.

  Saabnet lists the following specs for MY00:

  9-5 (2.3L): 170hp/207ft-lb

  9-5 Aero (2.3L): 230hp/258ft-lb (243ft-lb Auto)

  9-3 (2.0L): 185hp/194ft-lb (184ft-lb Auto)

  9-3 HOT*(2.0L): 205hp/209 (184ft-lb Auto)

  *HOT = High Output Turbo. According to my EPC, the 9-5 Aero and 9-3 SE (which has the HOT) use the same turbo (TD04HL-15T-5cm^2 ->9-5 B235R 230-250hk/350Nm M/00-> and all Viggen, and B205R 205hp/280Nm M/00->). Getting a HOT 2L engine to make 9-5 Aero power is likely a walk in the park...

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  Oct. 28, 2009 11:19 a.m. 81gtv6 Reader

  I would think it would be possible as long as you had all of the electronics out of both cars. As has been stated above all of the 2.0 cars use the T5 system and the 2.3 cars use T7.
  

  How about using the 2.0 block and putting all of the 9-5 suff on it? The 2.3 is just a stroked 2.0 so I would think that should work.

  As for the power issue, I drive a 99 9-3 HOT and my wife has an 03 9-5 Aero. My car feels quicker but she will pull me eventually. By the way, the newer Aero 2.3s put out 260hp and as far as I have been able to tell it is only a software change.

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  May 18, 2010 9:52 a.m. gShawn

  Yes, the MY99 to MY03 9-3 Viggens used the 2.3L B235R engine, the same engine used in 9-5 Aeros and all later-model 9-5s.
  

  I have a similar query, since Saab was suppose to have improved the sludge, engine failure problem, on the B235R engine after 2003, can I readily install a 9-5's MY06 B235R engine in a MY00 9-3 Viggen?

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  May 18, 2010 1:31 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  I imagine that as long as the blocks and the heads are cast from the same molds.. you can use them in either car with the resident wiring and management

  During the Sound Check, nobody can year you scream

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  May 18, 2010 5:22 p.m. HappyAndy HalfDork

  the smart swap is a 2.3t from a 9000 into a 9-5, I've seen it done more than once, but don't know the details, but I'm sure that the many SAAB forums could steer you through it.

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  Nov. 23, 2010 3:00 a.m. superblue1999

  I know that unlike the VIggen version of the 2.3 the one from the 9-5 has that large upper engine mount that would need to be dealt with somehow when dropping in a 2.3 from a 9-5 into the 9-3 I am contemplating the swop and I can swop everything over accept I am not sure as far as how the engine will be mounted so any ideas guys?

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