Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » RX-8, GTO, and WRX Reliability « 1 2 3 »
  • Salanis

    Aug. 29, 2010 11:43 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

    Okay, girlfriend is looking closer at cars she's interested in. Goal is a 2+2 sports coupe, preferably with RWD. She drove an RX-8 today and loved it, but she's heard some mixed things about the reliability and longevity of the rotary engine. I figured I'd come here as the appropriate place to dispel or confirm myths.

    The GTO and WRX are other cars she's considering, and also figured I'd ask if there are any reliability concerns with those. Someone was telling her that the engine in the GTO was temperamental and costly to repair.

  • gunner

    Aug. 30, 2010 12:13 a.m. gunner New Reader

    Have her do some research on the mazda boards about the rotary. They are not bad if you take care of them. I do not own one but was looking at them for a bit. Horrible gas mileage but they burn less oil than my 175000 mile corolla. 04-05 had issues with cold starts if you killed the engine before it was warm it would flood. Offset that against needing to be revved to 9000 rpms everytime you drive it(heaven!!) not a bad trade there. I can't tell you about wrx's they seem to be good cars unless really abused. incidentally I thought the GTO engine was the standard GM v-8 espeically the 5.7 liter. I hope someone that knows their ass from a hole in the ground responds about that though. Good luck in your search.

  • Salanis

    Aug. 30, 2010 12:15 a.m. Salanis SuperDork

    We've done some google searches and gotten a bunch of mixed reviews. I generally trust this forum as a place where the people are knowledgeable.

    Watching videos of sportscar racing does not fully convey the experience. It's more like playing a three-way game of Speed-Chess while strapped to a chair... inside a giant beehive.

  • JtspellS

    Aug. 30, 2010 3:24 a.m. JtspellS New Reader

    Plenty will chime in but basically the RX8 needs the most attention (you really should check the oil level every other fill up, pre-mixing helps a lot, do not shut down until after total warm up, rev car to 3-4k rpm before shutting down to prevent flooding) but gives the most back in return only real issue as stated is gas mileage.

    With the GTO look at getting the later 6.0 as the 5.7 is not the better engine.

    The WRX is great but come 60 and 80k you better follow the maintenance procedures to a key or you will be kicking your self in the ass HARD.

    Good luck with your choice.

  • Woody

    Aug. 30, 2010 5:34 a.m. Woody SuperDork

    My 04 WRX has been reliable as an anvil for over 120k miles. Nothing out of the ordinary for maintenance, just spark plugs, oil and filter changes and a new timing belt.

    The only failure was a heater blower motor that seized. I replaced it myself with a used one from eBay.

    Unleash the relentless power of her 1400cc Quadrozontal engine...

  • 4cylndrfury

    Aug. 30, 2010 6:15 a.m. 4cylndrfury SuperDork

    I do seem to remember a GRM article where they were suggesting budget alternatives to supercars, and I belive the GTO was a replacement for the (at that time current) Z package vette (07/08 IIRC). To me, they appear to be a decent DD-ish sports coupe that can also handle itself at the track.

    That said, the WRX's do seem to be bulletproof, even if that assertation is based solely on the riced out versions I see day in day out around me. If a 19yo turdball can slap a fart cannon and ill fitting body kit, blast up to 50 mph at every light and then hardpark at the White Castle (their fries used to only come in one size ) for 2 or 3 years with their "minimal" (read: lack of) proper mechanical ability, Id say a relatively unmolested version in the right hands could last for quite some time!

    "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." - Leonardo DaVinci

  • JtspellS

    Aug. 30, 2010 6:49 a.m. JtspellS New Reader

    4cylndrfury wrote: I do seem to remember a GRM article where they were suggesting budget alternatives to supercars, and I belive the GTO was a replacement for the (at that time current) Z package vette (07/08 IIRC). To me, they appear to be a decent DD-ish sports coupe that can also handle itself at the track. That said, the WRX's do seem to be bulletproof, even if that assertation is based solely on the riced out versions I see day in day out around me. If a 19yo turdball can slap a fart cannon and ill fitting body kit, blast up to 50 mph at every light and then hardpark at the White Castle (their fries used to only come in one size ) for 2 or 3 years with their "minimal" (read: lack of) proper mechanical ability, Id say a relatively unmolested version in the right hands could last for quite some time!
    Unmolested WRX? thats almost laughable! Not impossible just rare.
  • Klayfish

    Aug. 30, 2010 6:59 a.m. Klayfish New Reader

    Which GTO? The '04 or the '05-'06? The '05-'06 used the LS2 motor. It also had upgrades brakes and cosmetic changes. A lot of people feel it's the better car, and it costs that much more accordingly. Having owned an '04, I'm a bit partial to those. It uses the LS1 engine. As long as you take car of them, they're pretty bulletproof. They also are very common, so there's a huge (and relatively inexpensive) aftermarket for them. The prices are also much lower. I just sold my '04 in May. It had a laundry list of mods...engine put out 372rwhp, big buck suspension upgrades, clutch/tranny, etc...and 21,000 original miles for under $17k. You can find a nice stock '04 for $13-$14k. Only suggestion is that if she's going to drive it hard, upgrade the brakes.

    If it matters for you, look at fuel mileage too. I've heard the RX is a fuel hog. Not sure about the Subie, but I think it's pretty thirsty too. The GTO can suck gas if you are on it hard a lot. But on the highway, I could get 32mpg, and in mixed driving, I averaged about 22-24mpg.

    Edit...forgot to mention...Even with all the mods my engine had, I never found it to be tempermental. Ran great, stayed cool, no major issues. The car rides nice too. Has a bit of body roll in stock form, remember that it's a fairly heavy car, but still a great compromise between ride and handling.

  • 1988RedT2

    Aug. 30, 2010 7:00 a.m. 1988RedT2 Reader

    I vote for the RX-8. I understand that Mazda has extended the warranty on the 2004-2008 cars to 8 years or 100k miles.

  • Strike_Zero

    Aug. 30, 2010 8:09 a.m. Strike_Zero Reader

    The only thing temperamental about the LS motor in the GTO is amount torque it produces and how easy you can multiple said torque (and HP) with a few bucks . . .

    -=PJ=- "If not under warranty, live with it, or bend over and grab ankles."

  • Wonkothesane

    Aug. 30, 2010 9:20 a.m. Wonkothesane Reader

    I think the points have been hit pretty good, but I've got to chime in as someone with some rotary experience. The 04-05s Rx8s had some reliability issues that resulted in a lot of engine failures, which have been resolved. The bad press/image is why Mazda retroactively extended all Rx8 power train warranties to 8 years 100k. What was pretty cool of 'em was that they also paid back any owners who had to pay out of pocket for an previously "out of warrenty" repair on their engine. They also had some flooding issues and such, mostly resolved with software fixes.

    That said, if you look at an 06+ you'll have none of those concerns, but the price reflects that a bit as well.

    The "needs a lot of attention" thing is really beaten to death as well. I would recommend checking your oil about every 1000 miles, though. For normal use (commuting, fun driving and some autocrossing) don't worry about premixing or any of that noise.

    With my 07, if I beat it like it owes me money, I seem to get about 19 MPG. If I just "normally" (for me) drive it, I can get about 20.5 or so. I normally beat on it!

    Maintenance for it should include redline every time you take it out, after you warm it up, it's just good rotary maintenance :)

    As far as longevity, my last Rx7 (an 86 non-turbo) had over 235k on it when I sold it, with the original motor as far as I could tell. My dad's 85 that he retired due to rust had about 150k on it, we just fired up that engine a week or two ago in his new 83 shell. The boosted engines stock seem to go about 130-140k without an overhaul, though expect to lower that to 100k or less if you start upping the boost.

    Oh, I will add that in my Rx8, we can fit 3 adults and a baby in a seat for a day at the autocross pretty comfortably.

    1 Mazda == Good. 4 Mazdas == More Gooder.

  • 1988RedT2

    Aug. 30, 2010 9:29 a.m. 1988RedT2 Reader

    In reply to Wonkothesane:

    I always marvel at the rotary's undeserved reputation for unreliability. I'm currently flogging an '88 Turbo II with over 100k on the original engine running near 20 psi on a sloppy tune on a Haltech, and I can't seem to blow it up. It's nothing for n/a engines to go 200-250k if you don't overheat or oil starve them.

  • Wonkothesane

    Aug. 30, 2010 9:36 a.m. Wonkothesane Reader

    1988RedT2 - I think it's largely due to the very initial ones (we're talking 60s), that has some longevity issues mostly due to metallurgy limitations of the time (as near as I can tell). There's a lot of "My daddy knew a guy who blew one up, so they're reliable" mentality that's extremely pervasive. That and they are a car that doesn't tolerate overheating well. Of course, Subies don't like it either and they're still considered "reliable" even with that 2.5 head gasket fiasco...

    I guess I don't understand people :)

    1 Mazda == Good. 4 Mazdas == More Gooder.

  • calteg

    Aug. 30, 2010 9:55 a.m. calteg New Reader

    Think its a pretty clear cut case for the GTO; fastest, most reliable, best interior, best fuel economy, modable motor, competitively priced. Unless for some reason you absolutely need suicide doors or awd

  • JohnGalt

    Aug. 30, 2010 10:36 a.m. JohnGalt Reader

    Wonkothesane wrote: 1988RedT2 - I think it's largely due to the very initial ones (we're talking 60s), that has some longevity issues mostly due to metallurgy limitations of the time (as near as I can tell). There's a lot of "My daddy knew a guy who blew one up, so they're reliable" mentality that's extremely pervasive. That and they are a car that doesn't tolerate overheating well. Of course, Subies don't like it either and they're still considered "reliable" even with that 2.5 head gasket fiasco... I guess I don't understand people :)

    People fear what they don't understand, and people don't seem to understand the rotory. I think the main source of all the misinformation regarding reliability stems from how they respond to bad tuning. You can't treat them like a conventional motor. Back when they were new, there were posts every other week on Club rx8 about people wanting to add MOAR boost and asking what was the biggest NOS shot they could run.

  • nervousdog

    Aug. 30, 2010 11:10 a.m. nervousdog Reader

    My '04 GTO was completely reliable. I never heard of any engine reliability issues when I used to cruise the GTO message boards. Its just the standard GM LS1 or LS2 engine depending on the model year.

    The interior was really nice too, probably the best of any GM besides Cadillac. Mine was Cosmos (purple) with matching purple seats, door inserts, and gauges. The back seats are fine for adults.

    Trunk space is a little small and there is no pass-thru because the gas tank sits between the rear seats and trunk. Its not tiny, but smaller than cars of comparable size.

    Some early cars had an issue with "strut rub" where the tire could contact the suspension and could cause a blowout. My GTO never did it and I never knew anyone who did, not even the guys that auto-x'ed. It seemed like the forum made a bigger deal of it than it really was.

    Hope this helps.

    Cone-smacker Extraordinaire

  • wlkelley3

    Aug. 30, 2010 11:27 a.m. wlkelley3 HalfDork

    Can't really say anything about the GTO or WRX other than the friends I have the own them have no complaints about them. I do have an 04 RX8. We did have the flooding issue and the engine was replaced under warranty. To get around that, the trick is no starting and moving the car then shutting off. Let it run some, drive around the block or something. You don't have to get it to operating temp, just don't start it and rev it a couple times then shut it off as that will flood it. Gas mileage isn't great but compared to my 95 F150 w/203,000 miles the RX8 gets better. Not anywhere close to my Miata though. Just took it on an 800+mile trip with no issues. Doesn't use as much oil as you would think and there is an oil low light that works, although you want to top it off before that comes on. Check and add as needed every couple fill-ups is fine. Mine has just turned over 100,000 miles w/8,000 on the new engine. Check maintenance costs on all the choices. RX8 spark plugs are $80 for the set of 4 as an example.
    Any of them would be a good choice.

  • Aug. 30, 2010 2:32 p.m. kb58 Reader

    Wonkothesane wrote: ...Oh, I will add that in my Rx8, we can fit 3 adults and a baby in a seat for a day at the autocross pretty comfortably.

    But how does he reach the pedals?

    Kimini, and now a mid-engine Seven, www.midlana.com

  • GameboyRMH

    Aug. 30, 2010 2:58 p.m. GameboyRMH SuperDork

    WRX>GTO>RX8 for reliability.

    The WRX and GTO should both be very reliable, I'm just handing the win to the Subaru on reputation

  • fastmiata

    Aug. 30, 2010 3:08 p.m. fastmiata Reader

    Get the GTO. Yeah, you can make it crazy fast with small investment but you will cut into its reliability. I added a cold air intake and replaced all the front bushings and struts due to the magazine articles and forum chat. I really couldnt tell the difference between 350 and 400hp in my test drives and the 2004 was very reasonably priced. I am tempted to add a better exhaust but am not sure that I want the car to have a high profile. Right now, no one really knows what it is and I couldnt see paying extra money for fake hood scoops and 50hp I couldnt feel. The car has been ultra-reliable. Using synthetic oil, I just change when the computer says to change oil and I go over 11k miles between changes. I would recommend that you replace the stock belly pan with an aftermarket guard. You lose about 30lbs immediately and it is much easier to service the engine. There are plenty of parts for the GTO and if GM had built more cars this solid, we the people wouldnt own GM today. I have driven it daily this summer purely due to the heat of the Tennessee summer and the efficiency of the AC compared to my miata.
    I have owned and raced many different rotaries and the RX8 is no different than any other rotary. They are reliable and long-serving but need more than average maintenance to keep them that way.
    I have no experience with WRX but I am not sure I want to own any high mileage car with exotic engine or drivetrain. YMMV

    Wayne Henry

  • Teh E36 M3

    Aug. 30, 2010 3:27 p.m. Teh E36 M3 Reader

    My wrx has been anvil-reliable since '02. 96k.

  • Wonkothesane

    Aug. 30, 2010 3:33 p.m. Wonkothesane Reader

    kb58 wrote: But how does he reach the pedals?

    Nice :)

    GameboyRMH wrote: WRX>GTO>RX8 for reliability.

    Why? Just out of curiosity...

    1 Mazda == Good. 4 Mazdas == More Gooder.

  • ReverendDexter

    Aug. 30, 2010 3:37 p.m. ReverendDexter Dork

    GameboyRMH wrote: WRX>GTO>RX8 for reliability.

    I question this. How is a DOHC turbo AWD car more reliable than an N/A pushrod RWD?

    This just seems like the typical bias that Japanese cars are somehow more reliable than American cars.

    Mind you, the closest I've come to owning any of these was a single ride in an RX-8, and being stuffed in the backseat of a WRX wagon from Eureka to San Diego and back.

    --There is no turd more polished than the Ford Mustang--

  • EvanB

    Aug. 30, 2010 4:02 p.m. EvanB Dork

    If I could have found a GTO in my price range I would have definitely bought that over my WRX.

    Formerly jdmae92

  • Capt Slow

    Aug. 30, 2010 4:26 p.m. Capt Slow HalfDork

    I don't think reliability should be the discriminator you use to pick a car out of the three. Its pretty much going to be a wash. How is she planning on hooning the car?

    Drifting: GTO no question

    Autocrossing: RX-8 (WRX being very close)

    HPDE's: WRX

    General street driving: GTO (WRX being very very close, esp if you are running up to the snow)

    '96 Miata | '06 Mazdaspeed6 | '01 ford focus | '82 Mazda RX-7

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