Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Okay Scoobie guys..enlighten me. 1 2

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  Dec. 26, 2010 10:39 p.m. friedgreencorrado SuperDork

  Long story short:
  

  I work in the city of Atlanta, GA. I live about 35mi away in a rural northwestern county (Bartow). We just had a winter storm that is unusual by Southern standards, but my bosses are pissed that I left work early on the 25th, and didn't go to work at all on the 26th. I work 2nd shift (2p-10p at our place), could get to work with no problem during either day (as I did on the 25th), but wouldn't be able to get home at night after everything re-freezes.

  For my next daily driver, I want AWD (just in case this weather happens again), and want something newer than the 2003 model year (I'd been using my 92 Golf Mk2 to DD until I hit some debris on the road months ago and still haven't found all the plastic crap I need to fix it). I'm a VW guy, I love Audis, but since I want something new enough to find trim/interior parts for, I'm thinking Subaru. Especially since I won't be able to find more than $5-6K to spend. Don't care if it's sedan, coupe or wagon. I'd probably put a set of performance springs/struts on it and be done, I'm not looking to autoX it, just not looking to bore myself, either.

  Suggestions/recommendations?

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  Dec. 26, 2010 11:02 p.m. nderwater HalfDork

  winter tires? :p

  Auto photo blog: http://motomania.tumblr.com

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  Dec. 26, 2010 11:19 p.m. Yavuz New Reader

  nderwater wrote: winter tires? :p

  I'm with him. We're in the middle of a 12"+ blizzard right now and I have no problem getting around in my Miata with snow tires.

  One of my favorite Subaru's in that price range is the older generation Impreza 2.5RS. That could be a place to start looking.

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  Dec. 27, 2010 12:28 a.m. friedgreencorrado SuperDork

  Snow tires would just rot away in the years between driving on snow down here (although I'll admit that I don't know how much they'd do for me driving on the black ice we get every year. I'd like to hear stories about that as well! ).

  Yavuz, what chassis you talking about for the older Impreza? "Bugeyes", or the one before that?

  How can it be a midlife crisis, when I've driven sportscars my entire life?

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  Dec. 27, 2010 1:32 a.m. griffin729 HalfDork

  I'm guessing he's talking about the GC6 Impreza 2.5RS like what I have. They were made from 98-01. Really all Imprezas from 93-01 were GC's but the RS was sold from 98 on. The GD chassis Impreza ran from 02-07. The 02-03 are the "bugeyes", front fascia change for 04-05 and again for 06-07, but they were all the same chassis code. 02 was also the first year for the WRX in the states and 04 was the first year for the STi.

  XBL gamertag: griffin729

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  Dec. 27, 2010 1:37 a.m. griffin729 HalfDork

  Also a good set of snows will do good on ice too. Sure you may only need them 2 months out of the year, but they'll still help. Besides even with a Subaru running on a good set of all season tires you still slow down a bunch this time of year. The fun part is the ability to get sideways at will in the white stuff, and recover from it.

  XBL gamertag: griffin729

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  Dec. 27, 2010 4:40 a.m. Travis_K Dork

  Subaru parts cost quite a bit more then VW parts, and they really arent made as well. If you want suspension upgrades, get an impreza, legacys there isnt much. Try to get one with lower mileage (under 200k also), You could easily spend $3k+ fixing all the worn out stuff on one with alot more than that.

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  Dec. 27, 2010 5:27 a.m. ddavidv SuperDork

  Travis_K wrote: Subaru parts cost quite a bit more then VW parts, and they really arent made as well.

  I completely disagree, having owned a Jetta GLI and a Audi GT prior to running Subarus. VW products in the era the OP is talking about are certainly not more reliable than Subarus. The occasions where Subarus parts are more expensive it's not really significant, because Subarus take far fewer parts than VWs.

  To the OP: Do NOT buy a Legacy Outback if you want to do suspension. You can't lower them like the other choices as they have welded in risers to increase the ride height. You can lower any of the Impreza or Forester based cars easily, as well as Legacy non-OB models. Many of the parts will swap around between models making such things quite simple. The Impreza is more nimble than the Legacy and will be the more 'fun' platform. Just be cautious of the pre-03 2.5 engines as they were fitted with sub-par head gaskets that fail. Make sure any impending purchase has had this $1500-$2000 operation done first. Once upgraded they are generally not a problem. For simplicity/reliability I'd try to avoid the DOHC quad cam 2.5 as it's not any better than the SOHC and has more issues, particularly with the head gaskets. I always enjoyed driving our Impreza, one of the few Asian cars that really had the fun-to-drive thing as part of the package.

  Moved to the fastest run group so I can drive "flat out"

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  Dec. 27, 2010 6:58 a.m. cghstang Reader

  AWD gets you going.

  Winter tires let you stop.

  Edit: That being said, I will have a Subaru with winter tires at some point.

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  Dec. 27, 2010 7:15 a.m. car39 Reader

  AWD: just enough traction to get you to the scene of the accident

  Xtra large drivers drive "FAT OUT"

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  Dec. 27, 2010 7:21 a.m. DaveEstey Reader

  You can find bugeye WRX's around that range and from what I've seen the unmolested versions pile on miles pretty well.

  Of note, the WRX's come with limited slip rear diffs and open front diffs. Legacy GT's are the same way. IIRC the GC chassis RS also has a lsd in the rear.

  The other subies have open diffs all around.... Not that great if you actually get stuck.

  I love my Legacy GT with studded snows. Fast into the ditch and fast out of it too!

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  Dec. 27, 2010 7:26 a.m. SVreX SuperDork

  New job?

  Looks like you are making a buying decision that will cost you several thousands of dollars based on either 1) a completely unreasonable boss, or 2) you dropped the ball and didn't try.

  Don't take this personally, I'm just observing.

  So if the first option is closer to the truth, you work for an idiot, and it's time to start job hunting.

  So, let's explore the second option. If you didn't go to work just because you were scared you couldn't get home, you didn't try very hard. They have a right to question your commitment to the company. Just think what they would have thought if you had handled it differently.

  If you had shown up with a change of clothes and a sleeping bag (prepared to stay the night), YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN A HERO. Whether or not you stayed, they would have realized you were ultra committed and one of the best and most loyal employees they've got.

  I understand no one relishes the idea of staying the night at work. But if the job is an awesome job worth keeping, one night wouldn't have hurt you, and it would have communicated enormous good will on your part to the boss- maybe put you in line for a promotion. Besides, when is the next time there is likely to be 7" of snow in North GA? It's not like they would come to expect it from you.

  I don't think you need a new car or snow tires. I think you need a thinking re-alignment.

  Just a thought...

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  Dec. 27, 2010 7:30 a.m. HappyAndy HalfDork

  nderwater wrote: winter tires? :p

  +1

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  Dec. 27, 2010 7:31 a.m. wbjones Dork

  my older Suby ('95 Impreza 2.2) (230k mi) with snow tires hasn't had any problems with the renewed winter weather we've had for the last 2 yrs...

  just remember the hard part is stopping ... regardless of the tire choice... most of the SUV's you see in the ditches are usually there because they forgot that their stopping distances are tripled...

  the cam seals on my 2.2 had been replaced (typical of the 2.2's) and in 4 yrs the only repair has been a new radiator

  understeer: when you hit the wall with the front end,,, oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back end.... horsepower: how hard you hit that wall.... torque: how far you drag that wall

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  Dec. 27, 2010 7:38 a.m. SVreX SuperDork

  My experience with WRXes in Atlanta in the under $5K price range is that most have been thoroughly thrashed.

  Snow tires are pointless in a place that has almost never had 2 consecutive days of snow. By the time you get them mounted, the snow will be gone, and then you need to demount them. You are right about them rotting before you use them.

  The cost of the tires plus a set of rims plus mount and dismount probably doesn't pay for the cost of the lost wages for a day.

  Stick with what you love (VW's), but consider the sleeping bag.

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  Dec. 27, 2010 7:43 a.m. Mikey52_1 HalfDork

  Living with the possibility of winter weather anytime has taught me the wisdom of having decent tires on the DD. Race tires aren't usually up to the task of running black ice one day, slush the next and dry for months at a time. Studs aren't legal all year 'round, and they're spooky to drive on when the roads are dry and clear. Buy decent all-season tires, check the pressure and get it at the low edge of acceptable for black ice, slow down, and give yourself more time for a chancy drive.

  That whole 'slow down' spiel is one that gets repeated every time WE here in the frozen North get heavy weather. For you folks that get 2" of snow every 120 years or so, it bears repeating yet again. Keep the 'spirited driving' out of the equation until you're used to driving on the crap again. WE do it here; YOU should certainly be doing it if you're not used to the idea of snow at all, let alone multiple inches of it.

  That said, Snoweater is in the neighborhood here today, and we've a windy warm day to deal with. My condolences to those who have to deal with lots more snow than they're used to. The learning curve can be steep....

  Mike

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  Dec. 27, 2010 7:51 a.m. rusty02 None

  Seems like you might have to up your price range a bit. We've been looking into cars in that range- I put it on hold to save more money. Sounds like 10k is your magic number.

  -Jay

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  Dec. 27, 2010 7:59 a.m. sachilles Dork

  Dave you are mostly right, but the 98 and 99 RS did not come with a rear lsd, only the 2000 and 2001 did. 98-2001 imprezas carry a premium now, so if it's a good one expect the pricing to be a little higher than you might think. 02-03 wrx's are darn right reasonable in price now, many cheaper than unmolested RS's.

  Or do a VW with nokian's "all-season" tire. It is actually winter rated, and lasts a bit better in warmer conditions than a normal snow tire.

  I've lived in northern New England all my life. My first choice for snow/ice driving is snow tires. AWD is luxury, and is largely useless without the right tires during slippery conditions(awd doesn't help you stop).

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  Dec. 27, 2010 8:28 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  It is my understanding that snow tires are nearly as useless on ice as any other tire. Snow isn't the problem with Atlanta storms. Ice is.
  

  That said - driving around on the 25th and 26th was no problem on balding summer performance tires. Hell - the roads were dry by yesterday afternoon - nothing to refreeze. I'm with your boss on this one.

  Also - buying AWD for Atlanta's once-every-3-to-5-year-winter-storm is retarded.

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  Dec. 27, 2010 8:43 a.m. Rad_Capz Reader

  For a relatively small investment you could get a couple mounted studded snows to throw in the car whenever there's a possibility you might need them.

  John Paige

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  Dec. 27, 2010 8:54 a.m. sachilles Dork

  Snow tires work on ice better than non snow tires. Certain types better than others. Quite a few ice racers will attest to that. Studs are even better.

  Probably the wise thing to do for this situation is tire chains, and know how to use them. Unless chains are prohibited in GA.

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  Dec. 27, 2010 9:11 a.m. DaveEstey Reader

  The new crop of studless winter tires are actually pretty good on ice. Surprisingly good actually.

  Or you can make what I made for my CRX.

  230 studs in the front tires and 180 studs in the rears. No traction issues.

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  Dec. 27, 2010 9:26 a.m. Keith SuperDork

  Winter tires work better in sub-freezing conditions, regardless of the surface. Even if they don't see snow, you'll be better off on winter tires when it's cold. Mounting them to the car just on the days when there's snow on the ground is way too much work. EVO did some recent testing on the subject, actually - definitely worth digging up if you can find a copy. I don't know how cold it usually gets in Atlanta (not very, I'm guessing) but it makes a lot more sense to run on dry pavement on winter tires in the cold than it does to mount of a set of snows just for the days there is white stuff.

  You have to choose your tires well, though. The "ice tires" that rely on sticky rubber will burn up fast - I'm looking at you, Blizzak. They're like competition rain tires. Get something like one of the Hakks and you'll be happy even without studs.

  Taking risks just to get to work isn't a good plan if you're in a car with unsuitable tires and you don't have experience driving on the slippery stuff.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Dec. 27, 2010 9:32 a.m. aussiesmg SuperDork

  I drive about 40K a year on snow and ice, Ohio has a lot of days over 32 degrees during the day and under after the sun goes down at 5pm(this causes ice if you hadn't picked up what I meant). I drive a Lincoln Town Car transporting people, I never had any real problems but when I started using snow and ice tires in the winter, wow,

  Couple of years ago had to be in Toledo, a 120 mile trip, by 7am every morning, 7 days a week for 8 weeks. During this period we had a significant ice build up every day. It was awesome to see the STi guy's faces when the Town Car blew by them on US75.

  Pirelli Scorpions rule in the cold weather

  Cornering is like bringing a woman to climax. Jackie Stewart

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  Dec. 27, 2010 10:19 a.m. corytate New Reader

  audi quattro, and you can remain a das auto man.

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