Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » MS3 vs 9-3 Viggen? 1 2

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  Aug. 20, 2010 1:50 p.m. rogerbvonceg Reader

  So, I'm just kicking around and I started to think these two cars are pretty darn similar.
  

  They are both "overpowered" FWD 5-door hatchbacks, after all.
  

  Oh, I know the MS3 has more power and torque than the Viggen, and it probably handles better and mitigates its torque-steer better, and comes with HID, fully independent suspension, and more passenger volume...

  ...But decent Viggens can be had for about a third the cost of an '07 "Three." Combine the truly "grassroots" pricing with unique styling, rarity, and 5 extra cubes of cargo room...

  Tough call? Not in this economy.
  

  Your thoughts welcome, of course.

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  Aug. 20, 2010 2:00 p.m. Powar Dork

  The Viggen (and other 9-3s) are fun to drive, but the chassis is wobbly. Very much so. There are brace kits out there for both the body and the steering rack (check genuinesaab.com for details) and more aftermarket than you'd think. The ECU is tunable at home using T7Suite (ecuproject.com for details). A big rear sway from GenuineSaab was the best upgrade that I made to my 9-3 when I had it. The cars supposedly respond well to the Koni suspension kit, which includes dampers and springs. A Quaife diff is available for those who are willing to spend the money.

  I'd think that if you can stiffen the chassis enough to satisfy yourself, it'd be a great low-buck alternative for the MS3, and this is coming from someone who loves the MS3. With prices dropping as they have with the Viggens, even an old SAAB curmudgeon like me has been looking back to some of the newer stuff.

  '90 Miata / '68 95 / '69 96 DeLuxe / '73 Sonett III / '90 900S / '91 900 / '85 Hilux

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  Aug. 20, 2010 2:04 p.m. nderwater Reader

  Turbo Saabs are a lot of fun to drive hard because they have a lot of character. Not particularly good, but certainly entertaining. I have yet to drive a MS3, but it's on my list.

  Auto photo blog: http://motomania.tumblr.com

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  Aug. 20, 2010 2:08 p.m. 81gtv6 HalfDork

  
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  Aug. 20, 2010 2:10 p.m. PS122 New Reader

  I absolutely loved the Viggen... Find a nice one, embrace the torque steer, and enjoy!

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  Aug. 20, 2010 2:43 p.m. Schmidlap Reader

  My older brother had a Viggen for a few years and he really liked it. He ended up getting a company car (Tourag) and sold the Viggen to a neighbour. The neighbour still has the Viggen and still likes it a lot. He didn't have any major problems with it but I seem to recall he went through the stock tires pretty quickly. He replaced them with something with a longer treadlife and didn't have any problems.

  Bob

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  Aug. 20, 2010 2:46 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  I would much rather have a Viggen than an MS3.

  SCAVENGE THE SEA FLOOR FOR NUTRIENTS

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  Aug. 20, 2010 3:21 p.m. Twin_Cam Dork

  There's a reason Viggens are cheaper and it isn't because they're older.

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  Aug. 20, 2010 3:22 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  Twin_Cam wrote: There's a reason Viggens are cheaper and it isn't because they're older.

  More detail?
  

  Honestly, if the Viggen and the MS3 were the same price, i'd still buy the Viggen.

  SCAVENGE THE SEA FLOOR FOR NUTRIENTS

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  Aug. 20, 2010 3:44 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  I thought Viggens could be had in 2 door hatches also? I would definatly avoid the verts.. if you think the hardtops are flappy, the verts are terrible.

  I do agree on the bigger rear bar, I added one to my NG900 and it made a HELLA big difference in handling. Once I finish the exterior, I am going to look into the koni kit

  During the Sound Check, nobody can year you scream

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  Aug. 20, 2010 7:49 p.m. Lugnut HalfDork

  I was having a lot of trouble deciding between a Viggen and a C70 T5 5 speed. I ended up going with a Miata.

  I am a King Prawn.

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  Aug. 20, 2010 9:17 p.m. conesare2seconds New Reader

  Viggen FTW.

  North Florida Corvette Association

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  Aug. 20, 2010 9:38 p.m. z31maniac Dork

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  Twin_Cam wrote: There's a reason Viggens are cheaper and it isn't because they're older.

  More detail?
  

  It's a SAAB.

• 

  Aug. 20, 2010 10:41 p.m. mtn SuperDork

  Lugnut wrote: I was having a lot of trouble deciding between a Viggen and a C70 T5 5 speed. I ended up going with a Miata.

  This is magazine worthy

  there’s a lot of debate on this subject—about what kind of car handles best. Some say a front-engined car; some say a rear-engined car. I say a rented car.

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  Aug. 21, 2010 9:03 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  z31maniac wrote:

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  Twin_Cam wrote: There's a reason Viggens are cheaper and it isn't because they're older.

  More detail?
  

  It's a SAAB.

  More car for your money, then!

  (Off to go look for Viggens and 9-3 H.Os)

  SCAVENGE THE SEA FLOOR FOR NUTRIENTS

• 

  Aug. 22, 2010 8:55 a.m. Twin_Cam Dork

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  z31maniac wrote:

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  Twin_Cam wrote: There's a reason Viggens are cheaper and it isn't because they're older.

  More detail?
  

  It's a SAAB.

  More car for your money, then!

  (Off to go look for Viggens and 9-3 H.Os)

  More repairs for way more money is what I was trying to imply...get used to saying "DI cassette" and "front brake rotors" while standing in front of a service writer.

• 

  Aug. 22, 2010 9:29 a.m. pres589 HalfDork

  Maybe you could get some black spray paint and put a big stupid smiley face on the front of the Viggen. Best of both worlds!

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  Aug. 22, 2010 9:30 a.m. JtspellS New Reader

  Ok well to defend the MS3 side of things you just need basic bolt on's and you will be a lot farther ahead than other's out there, Viggens are absolutely awesome but there is a lot of stiffening to get it where you want it where as the speed is all ready there.
  

  If you want something to do with more grassroots abilities than the viggen is the way to go, if you want more simple but (probably) cheaper over all costs MS3, you can't really lose with either.

  BTW when are you going to update the project MS3?????????????????

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  Aug. 22, 2010 9:31 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  Twin_Cam wrote:

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  z31maniac wrote:

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  Twin_Cam wrote: There's a reason Viggens are cheaper and it isn't because they're older.

  More detail?
  

  It's a SAAB.

  More car for your money, then!

  (Off to go look for Viggens and 9-3 H.Os)

  More repairs for way more money is what I was trying to imply...get used to saying "DI cassette" and "front brake rotors" while standing in front of a service writer.

  It would take a lot of DI cassettes and front brake rotors to make up the price difference. Not to mention the intangibles. Such as the high element of "class" nicer interior, etc etc etc.

  I don't think most people here would be taking their 8 year old Saab to the dealer for easy replacements like rotors and a DI Cassette, either.

  If you never want to work on your car and want an appliance, then the MS3 is arguably a better appliance. But if you want an appliance, buy a Camry.

  SCAVENGE THE SEA FLOOR FOR NUTRIENTS

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  Aug. 22, 2010 9:33 a.m. pres589 HalfDork

  Also, aren't MS3's having issues with barfing out turbo seals lately? I haven't paid a lot of attention, caught wind of this and am not sure if it's that common or not but the story is that replacement turbos are non-cheap to have installed and Mazda isn't quite stepping up to deal with this nicely.

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  Aug. 22, 2010 9:43 a.m. JtspellS New Reader

  pres589 wrote: Also, aren't MS3's having issues with barfing out turbo seals lately? I haven't paid a lot of attention, caught wind of this and am not sure if it's that common or not but the story is that replacement turbos are non-cheap to have installed and Mazda isn't quite stepping up to deal with this nicely.

  If you turn the boost up beyond 20psi (it's a KO4) or do not get your oil changed within 5k Mi. you can have issues and if you have bad seals putting a DP or TP in the system does not help with the over all situation. Yes mazda is being kinda pushy about it on the MS3/6 but that is when you berkeley you mazda and get a 2871R and call it a day. BTW there are cures for the smoking.

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  Aug. 22, 2010 9:46 a.m. JtspellS New Reader

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  Twin_Cam wrote:

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  z31maniac wrote:

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  Twin_Cam wrote: There's a reason Viggens are cheaper and it isn't because they're older.

  More detail?
  

  It's a SAAB.

  More car for your money, then!

  (Off to go look for Viggens and 9-3 H.Os)

  More repairs for way more money is what I was trying to imply...get used to saying "DI cassette" and "front brake rotors" while standing in front of a service writer.

  It would take a lot of DI cassettes and front brake rotors to make up the price difference. Not to mention the intangibles. Such as the high element of "class" nicer interior, etc etc etc.

  I don't think most people here would be taking their 8 year old Saab to the dealer for easy replacements like rotors and a DI Cassette, either.

  If you never want to work on your car and want an appliance, then the MS3 is arguably a better appliance. But if you want an appliance, buy a Camry.

  Not all of us Deal with the stealership, and i would not describe the MS3 as an appliance i mean what was the last appliance you knew that had around 263hp to the ft wheels and did not weigh about 4ton?

• 

  Aug. 22, 2010 6:23 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  JtspellS wrote:

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  Twin_Cam wrote:

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  z31maniac wrote:

  93celicaGT2 wrote:

  Twin_Cam wrote: There's a reason Viggens are cheaper and it isn't because they're older.

  More detail?
  

  It's a SAAB.

  More car for your money, then!

  (Off to go look for Viggens and 9-3 H.Os)

  More repairs for way more money is what I was trying to imply...get used to saying "DI cassette" and "front brake rotors" while standing in front of a service writer.

  It would take a lot of DI cassettes and front brake rotors to make up the price difference. Not to mention the intangibles. Such as the high element of "class" nicer interior, etc etc etc.

  I don't think most people here would be taking their 8 year old Saab to the dealer for easy replacements like rotors and a DI Cassette, either.

  If you never want to work on your car and want an appliance, then the MS3 is arguably a better appliance. But if you want an appliance, buy a Camry.

  Not all of us Deal with the stealership, and i would not describe the MS3 as an appliance i mean what was the last appliance you knew that had around 263hp to the ft wheels and did not weigh about 4ton?

  You're proving my point. It's not an appliance. Neither of them are. But the MS3 would ACT better as an appliance, simply because it's newer. As a Grassroots hoon-mobile, the Viggen is a great choice.

  Neither is wrong, i'd just rather take the cheaper, and potentially faster route in the Viggen.

  SCAVENGE THE SEA FLOOR FOR NUTRIENTS

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  Aug. 22, 2010 6:49 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  in working through 16 years of no-maintance on my NG... I have yet to find any parts that particuarly expensive. I have not yet replaced the turbo, so that opinion may change.

  I did find a working DI casette in a junkyard.. brought it home for $10

  During the Sound Check, nobody can year you scream

• 

  Aug. 22, 2010 7:16 p.m. 92dxman HalfDork

  What is this DI casette I always hear mentioned when the Saab word is brought up round these parts?

  09 Yaris hatch & a flock of bikes..

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