Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Manual trans setup for G Body 1 2

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  June 9, 2010 11:17 p.m. rebelgtp Dork

  Hey guys I'm getting ready to start tracking down the parts to stick the manual trans in my Olds. My problem is (and I'm sure others have dealt with the same problem) tracking down the appropriate linkage etc to get the conversion done. I have also read that manual linkages can interfere with aftermarket headers and the like. Also the aftermarket kits with pedals and linkages can run $500, not challenge friendly.

  I'm kind of thinking that I might want to go with the hydraulic clutch setup though I'm not sure what parts I will need to get and what I could salvage them from at the junk yard.
  

  I know that I need a pedal cluster, master cylinder setup, bell housing etc. So what should I look for as a donor? I think an F body pedal cluster can be modified to work I'm just not sure on all the other parts.

  Anyone here do something like this?

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  June 10, 2010 1:52 a.m. Appleseed SuperDork

  See if you can find info/pics on the first year G-body Malibu. You could get a manual for that first year, only. I'd like to believe that being GM, they wouldn't make something that unique and only use it for one model year.

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  June 10, 2010 5:48 a.m. M030 HalfDork

  I once saw a Canadian market 1978-80 Olds Cutlass Salon (that funny looking hatchback 4dr thing) with a floor-shift 3spd manual...but this was back in the 80's.

  - Brian

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  June 10, 2010 5:49 a.m. oldopelguy Dork

  Aren't s-10s based on g-bodies? Any chance on that stuff working?

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  June 10, 2010 6:30 a.m. 914Driver SuperDork

  http://www.g-body.org/

  BMW -- You don't need a hibachi to cook rice.

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  June 10, 2010 7:52 a.m. Wally SuperDork

  It may be easier to go with a hydralic linkage. Get the pedal assembly from a 3rd gen Camaro, If I remember right the top two ears need to be cut off and moed up and it bolts in place of the Olds pedals, and there is a hole in the floor for a wiring harness behind it. Make a new hole for the wiring and put the clutch master in the existing hole. You could probably pick up a used Tilton style master and slave cyl. pretty cheap, make a couple little brackets and not worry about header clearance or finding the megabuck G body pedals.

  "You should never point a loaded gun at anyone. This is not a hard and fast rule, however. A hard and fast rule is that you should never, ever, point an unloaded gun at anyone." P.J. O'Rourke

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  June 10, 2010 8:20 a.m. 914Driver SuperDork

  I bought a hydraulic clutch set up for one of my never finished projects. I don't recall the name, I'll look when I get home; it included a brandy new master cylinder and your choice of three resovoir set ups. Small, large or remote.

  I know me, it was cheap or I wouldn't have it.

  Dan

  Edit:

  Rebel, it was similar to this but with more choices:

  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ZZZ-46026/

  BMW -- You don't need a hibachi to cook rice.

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  June 10, 2010 8:52 a.m. Junkyard_Dog HalfDork

  When I had my factory 4-speed 78 442 I had to fab up a replacement for a broken Z bar and it wasn't hard to make. The hard part is finding the original parts to make a pattern from-but if you use the fabbed parts and not the expensive stockers then the patterns don't count towards the budget and you can resell them. At least thats how I read the rules. What trans are you going to use? Unless you're using a Muncie/T-10 the stock linkage probably won't work anyway.

  I love going to the Pull-a-Part because the dollar admission is cheaper than most car shows and you almost always see cooler cars.

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  June 10, 2010 12:03 p.m. rebelgtp Dork

  How would I setup with a stock fork (so no hydraulic throwout bearing) and a hydraulic clutch setup? Any ideas?

  The transmission in question is Saginaw 4 spd from an F body.

  "I can drive any forking thing around" http://banditcutlass.wordpress.com/

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  June 10, 2010 12:08 p.m. 914Driver SuperDork

  Take a look at Chevy trucks. Mine had the master on the firewall and a slave inside the bell housing (sucks BTW). A hydraulic throwout bearing is ~$39.

  > $$$ = < BS.

  It's just an automotive axiom.

  BMW -- You don't need a hibachi to cook rice.

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  June 10, 2010 12:27 p.m. Cotton HalfDork

  rebelgtp wrote: Hey guys I'm getting ready to start tracking down the parts to stick the manual trans in my Olds. My problem is (and I'm sure others have dealt with the same problem) tracking down the appropriate linkage etc to get the conversion done. I have also read that manual linkages can interfere with aftermarket headers and the like. Also the aftermarket kits with pedals and linkages can run $500, not challenge friendly. I'm kind of thinking that I might want to go with the hydraulic clutch setup though I'm not sure what parts I will need to get and what I could salvage them from at the junk yard. I know that I need a pedal cluster, master cylinder setup, bell housing etc. So what should I look for as a donor? I think an F body pedal cluster can be modified to work I'm just not sure on all the other parts. Anyone here do something like this?

  Not a g body but......I recently converted my 72 Firebird from auto to manual. I used all the linkages etc off a 79 parts car. I also read that it wouldn't work with headers, but the headman shortys I bought clear fine.

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  June 10, 2010 1:09 p.m. pres589 Reader

  You're putting a Saginaw 4 speed behind a fuelie 355?
  

  Anyone want to look up the torque handling of that box and what most SBC's that are even half way built generate and compare the two?

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  June 10, 2010 1:19 p.m. cwh SuperDork

  Back in the day, I built a nice 355 and dropped it into an S-10. Used the clutch master cylinder that was in the truck, and fabbed a mount for the push slave on the side of the block. It was a bit finicky for adjustment (Think I really needed a bigger bore cylinder) but it worked fine. That was a Saginaw as well. Engine was 325hp, but was not flogged, no tranny problems at all.

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  June 10, 2010 1:26 p.m. rebelgtp Dork

  I'm not to terribly worried about the transmission. My uncles brother is running the exact same one in his stock car (Malibu) that has a very built 350 in it. In fact this transmission was his back up but since they closed all the tracks near us he has stopped racing the stock car.

  Actually that reminds me he might have some of the parts for the mechanical linkage out in the shed hmmm. I will have to give him a call.

  "I can drive any forking thing around" http://banditcutlass.wordpress.com/

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  June 10, 2010 2:11 p.m. Wally SuperDork

  Use a slave cyl. like this. Make up a small bracket to hold it on the engine block, and the pushrod works the stock fork and throw out bearing. Dan's post reminds me, the master will be low on the fire wall at a bit of an angle so you want the remote resivour up where you can reach it.

  http://www.cncbrakes.com/sc.asp?grp=sc&subgrp=push&series=305&subseries=

  The Saginaws ar ok for circle track racing because you put it in high and forget it, we used to take the teeth of 1st gear to lighten them, but figure saving a few pennys for a t-10 or M21 when it does let go.

  "You should never point a loaded gun at anyone. This is not a hard and fast rule, however. A hard and fast rule is that you should never, ever, point an unloaded gun at anyone." P.J. O'Rourke

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  June 10, 2010 2:29 p.m. Strike_Zero Reader

  Wally wrote: http://www.cncbrakes.com/sc.asp?grp=sc&subgrp=push&series=305&subseries=

  I'm using this for my 5.0 E36 build. I drove a Foxbody Tbird with this and it was nice and smooth . . .

  -=PJ=- "If not under warranty, live with it, or bend over and grab ankles."

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  June 10, 2010 2:35 p.m. 2002maniac Reader

  lol, I saw the thread title and could only come up with this:

  
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  June 10, 2010 2:56 p.m. ClemSparks SuperDork

  If I were converting a car to Standard I would, without a doubt, go with a hydraulic throwout bearing if one could be done with little headache (and anything with a chevy driveline falls into this category).

  My '83 Z28 was the last year of F-body with a mechanical (Z-bar) linkage. I converted it to a stock hydraulic setup as soon as I could (after breaking two chassis-side ball studs on the stock setup). This was in college.

  After that I worked on racecars with hydraulic throwout bearings and they are slick.
  

  I talked to a guy who had done an LSWhatever conversion in a Regal ('84...'86...something like that, they're all alike), and though I didn't see it, he mentioned he used an F-body pedal setup. I don't recall the generation, but others here have said third, so that's a good starting point.
  

  I'm not sure what master cylinder to use. The thirdgen master cylinder mounts at a wacky angle...could work fine or maybe not.

  Once you've got your pedals and master cylinder figured out...if you want to use a hydraulic throwout, it's a just a matter of time with the earl's or aeroquip catalog to hook up the plumbing.

  All this said, I've not personally converted a car to a hydraulic throwout bearing (but again...I will in the future).

  Clem

  Yeah, well...sometimes even when it IS broken I don't fix it.

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  June 10, 2010 2:59 p.m. rebelgtp Dork

  Hmmm I'm kinda liking that idea Wally. So what all parts do I need to hunt up? Will the F body pedal cluster (Anyone have one?) be the proper setup for use with that slave or is there another option I should look for? How about for the bellhousing should I be able to use just about anything that fits the engine and transmission setup?

  "I can drive any forking thing around" http://banditcutlass.wordpress.com/

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  June 11, 2010 12:08 a.m. Wally SuperDork

  Third Gen F body pedal assembley, aftermarket master and slave cylinders of your choice, a hose to connect the two, whichever bellhousing, fork, and throw out bearing will work, and a couple small fabricated brackets should get you going.

  "You should never point a loaded gun at anyone. This is not a hard and fast rule, however. A hard and fast rule is that you should never, ever, point an unloaded gun at anyone." P.J. O'Rourke

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  June 11, 2010 6:09 a.m. 914Driver SuperDork

  I've got a brand new slave for a Chevy pickup with a 5 speed. The nipple is broken off but I have it. $126 from a Stealership in Florida when I towed down for $2004. Yours free if you pay shipping.

  Dan

  BMW -- You don't need a hibachi to cook rice.

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  June 11, 2010 7:06 a.m. ClemSparks SuperDork

  I should have hotlinked a photo in my previous post (which I'll do now). My whole point is that you can eliminate several components by using a Hydraulic Throwout Bearing (it combines the bearing and slave cylinder and eliminates the fork and pivot ball altogether!).

  Like I said...slick!

  Yeah, well...sometimes even when it IS broken I don't fix it.

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  June 11, 2010 9:02 p.m. rebelgtp Dork

  914Driver is it repairable?

  Clem yeah I was thinking of going that route though they seem to be a rather spendy option.

  "I can drive any forking thing around" http://banditcutlass.wordpress.com/

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  June 11, 2010 10:04 p.m. hotrodlarry Reader

  I had a '87 Cutlass once that had a 3-spd manual trans in it. Pretty sure we used a trans, clutch, and z-bar from a late 70's Cutlass. The floor in the '87 was already stamped for the clutch and shifter. We mounted everything up and had about 1/4 inch of clearance between the shifter and the front on the stock '87 bench seat.

  The car drove fine, but we missed two things in the swap. First we didn't machine the flywheel before we installed it, which led to some chatter if the clutch wasn't let out at just the right spot. Then after we were done, we realized we left the neutral safety switch for the automatic trans in the car along with the stock column shift. The car wouldn't start unless the column was in park, and you had to use the column shifter to get the back up lights to work. I could drive the car all day long, but if someone else jumped in it, they got confused quick with two shift levers and four pedals ( e-brake, clutch, brake, gas)

  I miss that car.

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  June 11, 2010 10:08 p.m. stan_d Dork

  I have seen several elcaminos with 4 sp setups in fact i have one in my malibu i just un boli ted the pedals and left the brcket in place and used the man bolt and pedals

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