Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Magic Spinning Triangles - are they in my future? 1 2

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  Sept. 29, 2011 11:24 a.m. scardeal HalfDork

  Since I sold my 96 BMW, my wife and I decided to just get something with a small loan rather than deal with something that is less than reliable for a DD.

  A friend of mine is selling his 2004 Mazda RX-8, 90,xxx miles on it. He's a religious maintainer, and it shows on the car. I know he got the starter recall done, and he's got quite a number of maintenance receipts.
  

  Besides the potential flooding issue and oil consumption (by design), what sort of issues do these run into? Particularly between 100k and 150k miles.

  Thanks.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 11:28 a.m. tuna55 SuperDork

  Voice of reason here. An RX-8 is going to cost substantially more than a regular old car. If you're taking out a small loan for an RX-8, you can likely buy a regular car from the same era with the same mileage for no loan. It will undoubtedly save you gas money too. Your wallet can thank me later.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 11:34 a.m. Rufledt HalfDork

  even with religious maintainance, 100-150k is usually the range where the seals are wearing out and the compression is dropping. The thing will still run, it'll just slowly lose power. They don't tend to blow seals like older RX7's (as often). Also the stock ignition coils don't tend to last long, some people have to replace them every 30k. You can always upgrade them. Also, if the clutch pedal squeaks, you need a new one. Not a clutch, the pedal. they start to crack.
  

  The biggest problem I've had with mine (a series 2, but series 1's still suffer from this) is that 9000 RPM kicks ass. I've never driven a car that motivates me to misbehave this much. Luckily, it doesn't have a ton of power!

  "A dog oversteers, which is more fun than an understeering hyeena, so you want a mazda mx5 because it's rear wheel drive."

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  Sept. 29, 2011 11:36 a.m. Rufledt HalfDork

  In reply to tuna55:

  for all of their fancy engineering in the renesis, I've only ever seen higher than 20mph once. It only gets slightly better mileage than my 80's E-150. Poor gas mileage is an understatement. But it's soooo worth it!

  "A dog oversteers, which is more fun than an understeering hyeena, so you want a mazda mx5 because it's rear wheel drive."

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  Sept. 29, 2011 11:41 a.m. scardeal HalfDork

  Used car prices are ridiculous around here. His car is the only one I've seen that makes sense for the money. If I needed to, I could turn around and sell it for a $3k profit.
  

  I saw a 2009 Fit w/ 38k miles going for only $150 less than a brand new Fit of the same configuration. A 2008 Civic wanted $14k, 2007 Corolla $12k, 2005 Saturn Ion for $10k, etc. The only cars I looked at that I could get for less is a 2002 Civic Si with 122k and significant wear and tear (I've seen many older cars that look much better).

  The mileage isn't significantly different than the BMW (roughly 22 overall), and insurance is actually $12 less per year. Maintenance on a 100k RX-8 is going to be less than on a 180k BMW. I'm a little confused about how it'll be more expensive to maintain/run.

  It also has new ignition coils, new Racing Beat SS oil cooler lines, K&N intake (plus original), and a GReddy strut bar (plus original).

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  Sept. 29, 2011 11:52 a.m. nderwater SuperDork

  That situation sounds fairly unique - you might buy the car just to flip in a few months once the newness wears off. But keep in mind that asking prices don't directly correlate with actual sale prices.

  Auto photo blog: http://motomania.tumblr.com

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  Sept. 29, 2011 11:54 a.m. tuna55 SuperDork

  nderwater wrote: That situation sounds fairly unique - you might buy the car just to flip in a few months once the newness wears off. But keep in mind that asking prices don't directly correlate with actual sale prices.

  yeah dude. If you can find a cheap used RX8 than you can find a cheap used (insert name of car).

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  Sept. 29, 2011 12:07 p.m. pinchvalve SuperDork

  Look for something newer, like an RX9 or 10.

  "Don't Sweat the Petty Things." Yes, and Don't Pet the Sweaty Things.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 12:12 p.m. tuna55 SuperDork

  scardeal wrote: I'm a little confused about how it'll be more expensive to maintain/run.

  BECAUSE YOU'RE PAYING INTEREST.

  All done now, I'll let the "what car" thread continue.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 12:13 p.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

  I don't know what you are looking for or what you want to spend but here is a hot offer around my neck of the woods (Sandusky, OH)
  

  2000 Celica GTS 5 speed w/ 108k miles.
  http://www.mathewsford.com/used/Toyota/2000-Toyota-Celica-72eb9c840a0d0649013e8c1c...
  Forget the asking price of $7,990. I once bought a car off this dealership for $3k that they had priced at $5,800. ('88 MR2 SC w/ 68k miles bought in 2000)
  The rest of the story here is that I know who the original owner was. He is a 65 yr old man who races sailboats out of my same club. I have admired this car for years and he took very good care of it. I drove past the Ford Dealership Monday and saw the car on the lot and wondered if it was his. Sure enough, last night I saw him with a new 4 door Focus Hatch.
  I am sure that I can find out what they gave him as trade-in if you (or anyone else) is interested.
  If my needs were different, I would buy this car myself.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 12:17 p.m. amg_rx7 HalfDork

  I don't know where you guys come up with these comments on seals and stuff wearing out... Fact is that rotaries when properly maintained (regular oil changes, no overheating) will last as long or longer than piston engines. Plenty of rotaries out there with over 200k and 100-200k miles on the road and on the track.

  If you like the car, and it has been well maintained, go for it.

  You may want to replace shocks at 100-150k as they may be tired after 110k or so. Bleed the brakes, replace coolant, trans and diff oil and you are good to go. No timing belts or plastic water pumps to worry about or idiotic LCA bushings that wear out every 30k. No vanos either.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 12:37 p.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

  Life is too short to drive boring cars.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 12:53 p.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

  jrw1621 wrote: I don't know what you are looking for or what you want to spend but here is a hot offer around my neck of the woods (Sandusky, OH) 2000 Celica GTS 5 speed w/ 108k miles. http://www.mathewsford.com/used/Toyota/2000-Toyota-Celica-72eb9c840a0d0649013e8c1c... Forget the asking price of $7,990. I once bought a car off this dealership for $3k that they had priced at $5,800. ('88 MR2 SC w/ 68k miles bought in 2000) The rest of the story here is that I know who the original owner was. He is a 65 yr old man who races sailboats out of my same club. I have admired this car for years and he took very good care of it. I drove past the Ford Dealership Monday and saw the car on the lot and wondered if it was his. Sure enough, last night I saw him with a new 4 door Focus Hatch. I am sure that I can find out what they gave him as trade-in if you (or anyone else) is interested. If my needs were different, I would buy this car myself.

  This would be a great buy at $6k. Even a good buy at $7k. It's even one of the good years!

  Hell, i wish i could buy this today. (Except that it's red. I HATE red cars.)

  SCAVENGE THE SEA FLOOR FOR NUTRIENTS

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  Sept. 29, 2011 12:55 p.m. Otto Maddox Dork

  amg_rx7 wrote: I don't know where you guys come up with these comments on seals and stuff wearing out... Fact is that rotaries when properly maintained (regular oil changes, no overheating) will last as long or longer than piston engines.

  Thing is - proper maintenance is a lot more important on a rotary engine than a piston engine. Even then, I have serious doubts a rotary will last as long as your typical piston engine. I can understand wanting a rotary. I love them. But they are fragile.

  Barba non facit philosophum

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  Sept. 29, 2011 1:04 p.m. scardeal HalfDork

  tuna55 wrote: BECAUSE YOU'RE PAYING INTEREST. All done now, I'll let the "what car" thread continue.

  I expect to pay $500 max in interest over the lifetime of the loan...

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  Sept. 29, 2011 1:20 p.m. Otto Maddox Dork

  In reply to scardeal:

  How much does he want for it?

  Barba non facit philosophum

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  Sept. 29, 2011 1:37 p.m. mtn SuperDork

  scardeal wrote: Used car prices are ridiculous around here. His car is the only one I've seen that makes sense for the money. If I needed to, I could turn around and sell it for a $3k profit. I saw a 2009 Fit w/ 38k miles going for only $150 less than a brand new Fit of the same configuration. A 2008 Civic wanted $14k, 2007 Corolla $12k, 2005 Saturn Ion for $10k, etc. The only cars I looked at that I could get for less is a 2002 Civic Si with 122k and significant wear and tear (I've seen many older cars that look much better).

  Get on the internet, get a 3 day weekend, do a fly and buy.

  Anytime somebody tells you that vodka mixes well with anything, slide them a jar of mayonnaise and tell them to practice what they preach.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 2:05 p.m. clutchsmoke Reader

  berkeley it. Get the RX-8! They are a blast to drive.

  To the gas station. Sorry. Had to.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 3:33 p.m. klipless Reader

  I have a damn similar car (2004 w/89k) that I've DD'd for five years. I plan on taking it up to at least 150k before I get rid of it. I highly recommend it as long as you're okay with the following:

  19-20 mpg (saw 21 mpg once!) Carrying around a quart of oil in the trunk, I add a half quart every 1k

  Changing the spark plugs every 30k. A set of plugs is $100, and I can do it in half an hour.

  You don't mind spilling oil everywhere when doing an oil change

  I replaced the shocks at 80k b/c Michigan roads suck, and one of the rear eccentric blots was rusted solid to the bushing sleeve and had to be cutout. Koni yellows for this car are on the firm side, but then again, maybe it's just the roads. I've flooded it twice, but that's my own damn fault. Just make sure it warms up for five minutes. HVAC temp knob just went on the fritz, but it's an easy fix with a soldering iron. Taillight just started collecting water too. Other than that, it's been nothing but fun. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

  Also, here's another thread on them. Funny, I've had both problems Buzz mentioned.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 3:49 p.m. rotard Reader

  I've had no issues with mine. It's just not the kind of car that a non-car person should have. Get the axial flow short shifter if you get it. Definitely worth it. I've put about 45k trouble-free miles on mine.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 3:59 p.m. JohnGalt Reader

  I have had mine since 9k and it currently has 67K on it. Its a 2005 and the only things i have had go wrong are a coolant sensor that went bad. ($180) and a bad gas cap that made the check engine light pop (covered under warranty). Changed the plugs at about 50K ($80) and the oil get changed every 5K. I hear that the coil packs go about every 80k but they are rather easy to check or so i have heard. There is a GM ls coil pack conversion out their that might? be better but i think its just for cars with turbos ect. that burn through packs.

  Other than that mines been problem free and i love it. I drove in anger today in a semi abandoned housing complex and remembered just how much i enjoy the car. It had progress springs and adjustable toko d-specs all around. I recommend the d-specs for a daily driven car because you can adjust the rear shocks without taking everything apart.
  

  For more data on high mileage cars check out RX8club. Most of the crap about these motors going early is just that.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 5:56 p.m. Wonkothesane Reader

  My last NA Rx7 had over 215k on the original motor when I tore it apart to see how they worked.. Everything was still in spec.

  You'll only run into longevity problems with the engine when you start modding, of course, that could be said of a lot of things.

  Oil consumption is overblown, if you autocross all the time and drive the way I do through the mountains, you will use up to 1 qt every 5k (spread across the oil change interval), but that's still within the factory spec on my friends' new BMW (according to his manual).
  

  The real ownership experience (as said above in various posts):
  

  Check your oil every 2nd or 3rd fill up, top off if necessary.

  DON'T start the car, move it 2 feet and then immediately shut it off. This will "flood" the car, which means you have to hold down the accelerator all the way ,crank for 10 seconds and then let it start. The easiest thing is to let the car run for two minutes when you move it, or, you can do like I do (warning: There's no Mazda support for this), which is to rev it up to 3k or so, and turn it off while the engine is decelerating.
  

  Anything else is above.

  They're great cars!

  1 Mazda == Good. 4 Mazdas == More Gooder.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 7:16 p.m. wlkelley3 Dork

  ^What Wonkothesane said.^
  That's what I do with my RX8 and it seems to work. When my daughter had it, she was even more meticulous in the care than I am. We had the engine replaced under warranty at 98,000. There is a extended warranty/recall on the clutch pedal cracking but mine is good. It is a blast to drive the car to 9,000 rpm but I don't do it all the time, just once a day. jk. I add oil (about 1/4 quart) when the light comes on and that light comes on when the oil level is just at or slightly below the add line. I do the routine maintenance at the specified interval. What some could complain about is items such as spark plugs cost $20 a piece, that's $80 for spark plugs. Rims are 18" so factor in that tire cost. Don't autocross mine mainly because of that and I have a Miata for that.

  I was suprised with the car. I've never really been a fan of the spinning triangle but I'm converted now.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 9:08 p.m. rotard Reader

  I'm willing to bet that a lot of the people here drive cars that aren't designed to burn oil that burn a lot more than an RX8 does.

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  Sept. 29, 2011 10:40 p.m. Brett_Murphy HalfDork

  In reply to Otto Maddox:

  Fragile? I've never heard of a rotary throwing a rod or bending valves or any of the junk a piston engine does when it fails because they don't have those parts to break.

  The fact is that properly maintained non-turbo rotary engines are reliable. Turbo engines less so.

  If brute force isn't solving your problem, you're not using enough.

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