Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » M3 or 540? 1 2

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  March 13, 2009 9:46 a.m. TAftonomos New Reader

  Looking for input on a newerish sedan.

  Currently I'm driving a 535i. 87, 180K miles. Holding up well, runs good and has never left me stranded....however it is a 20 year old car, needs some maintenance taken care of (minor oil seeps here and there, some minor bugs).

  Problem is we've got an 11mo/old now, and will be trying for another one shortly. We've got a trailblazer to handle the utility side of things. I'd drive my 535 anywhere, but don't want to send my wife out in it with an infant (or potentially 2). Looking for something newer.

  Budget? 12K.
  

  I'm looking at older M3's (sedan), or 540i. I'm open to other ideas as well (S60R?). Thought about leasing a new jetta or passat TDI, but it's probably out of budget. I'd like to have something that has good performance, and gets semi decent highway gas mileage. I know the TDI is a far cry from a 540 or M car, but I can overlook the lack of "sport" for the 40+ mpg.
  

  Thoughts?

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  March 13, 2009 9:54 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  I was originally looking at E36 M3's when I ended up in my E39 540i6. The M3 has surprisingly little interior room. Less than my CRX had.

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  March 13, 2009 9:58 a.m. Strizzo Dork

  you could probably get an s60r for 12k, actually i think theres one listed on the houston cl for right about that, but its not going to get very good mileage on the highway with the turbo and awd, but it might be similar to the 540 on the highway.

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  March 13, 2009 10:02 a.m. 02Pilot New Reader

  I know I'm in the minority, but I prefer the I6 E39s to the V8s. Lighter (particularly the 01+ M54 all-aluminum engined cars), aluminum subframe, easier and cheaper to maintain. I'm perfectly content with my 01 525i - as long as you're willing to DRIVE it (a manual is mandatory IMHO, but particularly with the 2.5L), it gets along just fine. If you refuse to be satisfied with the 2.5L, check out the 530i; some argue it is the best of both worlds.

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  March 13, 2009 10:11 a.m. Ian F Reader

  TAftonomos wrote: I know the TDI is a far cry from a 540 or M car, but I can overlook the lack of "sport" for the 40+ mpg. Thoughts?

  First thought that came to my mind: "I'll sell you my TDI for $12K..." 46mpg be damned... I'm about sick of driving that car... TDI's sound great until you own one for awhile... and I even lucked out with a "good one" that's been stone-reliable since I bought it new in '03.

  That said, I'd either keep the 535 (sometimes better to stay with the evil you know...) or I agree with 02pilot and look at a 525i...

  A friend of mine has had a 540i6 for awhile now... but he works 5 miles from home, so mpg is a non-issue... but he gets in the low-mid 20's on the hwy.

  I lived with an E36 M3 (2 dr, no less) for a few years and never thought of the interior as being "cramped"... with the rear seat folded, it would carry a surprising amount of stuff. hwy mpg in the upper 20's to low 30's.

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  March 13, 2009 10:14 a.m. RossD New Reader

  Audi A6 2,7 twin turbo V6 (or 4.2 V8) Quattro. Find a turbo one with a 6sp manual and use the rest of the money on go fast parts or repair cost. (You get boat loads of air bags and comfort and decent performance, for a heavy car, and the 24 mpg. All the go fast parts for the older S4 at your finger tips, hell, with a simple ecu reprogram you can get 318hp/382lb-ft on 93 octane.)

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  March 13, 2009 10:18 a.m. dyintorace HalfDork

  DILYSI Dave wrote: I was originally looking at E36 M3's when I ended up in my E39 540i6. The M3 has surprisingly little interior room. Less than my CRX had.

  Agreed. I had two different two door e36 M3's. The interior isn't bad, but it's not terrible roomy. I have an e46 325iT now and it's fairly cramped too. 4 adults in the car means that those in the backseat are cramped.

  Gainesville, FL

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  March 13, 2009 10:20 a.m. walterj Dork

  E46 330i or E39 530i

  The E46 330i is a four door that has an interior that is worlds better than the E36, it has the same HP and with a set of springs and dampers... its pretty close thru the twisties. Gotta get an LSD though.

  The E39 530i has the same motor as the 330... the cost is less and so is the maintenance. The V8s are great - just a little 'spensive to fix and a little difficult to work on.

  Bawitdaba-da bang-da bang-diggy-diggy-diggy Said the boogie-said up jump the boogie --Kidd Rock

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  March 13, 2009 10:21 a.m. Keith SuperDork

  There's a big difference in size. If I wanted a play car, I'd go M3. If I wanted to cross the country, I'd go 540i. It's big and comfy and has absolutely no sensation of speed. 90 mph feels like 45.

  Bill at FM has done the progression - E36 M3, 540i 6-speed, E39 M5. He sold the M3 due to size problems (should have bought the four door, Bill) and he has the 540i up for sale due to horsepower problems (ie, not as much as the M5).

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  March 13, 2009 10:26 a.m. Ian F Reader

  RossD wrote: Audi A6 2,7 twin turbo V6 (or 4.2 V8) Quattro. ... and the 24 mpg.

  Say WHAT??? I had a 2.8 V6 Avant (NON-turbo)... and on a good day managed 25 mpg... treating the throttle pedal like a new-born baby... the guy I sold it to could only manage 22 mpg...

  After I sold and was thinking about a 1.8T as a replacement, I queried the forums about real-world MPG, hoping for something in the low 30's. The owners basically said, yeah... it can happen... but not often... and less likely from an AWD car.
  

  Audi's are known for lots of things... good mileage ain't one of them... S-cars even less so with V8 version rarely (if ever) getting out of the teens...

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  March 13, 2009 10:30 a.m. njansenv Reader

  I'm commuting in a e36 M3 these days, and REALLY like it. I expect I'll LOVE it once I have stock springs and good dampers on there. (roads are pretty bad in these parts) So far, I've averaged 26.8 mpg, driving conservatively.... Decent power, great handling, great sounding car. If I had the $, I might like a 330i more for my purposes, but the M3 will be in the stable for a LONG time. I don't think I've ever said that about a car I owned. (I'm 5' 8", and fit well, but noticed the footwell is actually quite narrow when I sat on the passenger side....)
  

  A 540i6 is on my shortlist....

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  March 13, 2009 10:46 a.m. Joe Gearin Associate Publisher

  DILYSI Dave wrote: I was originally looking at E36 M3's when I ended up in my E39 540i6. The M3 has surprisingly little interior room. Less than my CRX had.

  I dunno Dave, my E36 backseat is way more accommodating than a CRX's rear.

  I'd say it depends on how big a guy Taftonomos is. I'm about 5'8" and I have no space issues with the M3. Even the back seat of my 2 door is roomy and comfortable if I sit behind my driver's seat. Now if there was a 6'5" 300 lb. guy in the front.....yeah the back would be cramped. I've had 4 people in the car for extended drives with no complaints. Take into account that these weren't big folks though. (all under 6 foot and 200 lbs)

  I can also fit an extra set of wheels and tires (mounted) in the car for track days/ autocross with no problems. As previously stated, with the seats folded down there is quite a bit of useable space in there. I'm not sure if the 4 doors have foldable seats though.

  I'd say if you need the extra room, or if you are doing a ton of long distance driving, consider the 540i. Otherwise, I'd buy a nice clean M3.

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  March 13, 2009 10:47 a.m. skruffy Dork

  The E39 530i was one of consumer reports highest rated cars when it came out, which is saying a lot considering they usually hate cars with any sort of driver interaction. That being said, a 540 with the 6 speed is an excellent car. They'll go from sedate, comfortable grandma-mobile to big-smokey-burnout-maniac-machine with a flick of your right foot. Make sure any 5 you buy has the sport and premium option packages if only for the umpteen-way adjustable sport seats and rockin stereo.

  I've never been impressed with the E36 M3 interior, and that sort of ruins the car for me. However, if you're interested in something the same size and price, I've been looking at the lexus is300. They were available with a 5 speed and LSD(although they're pretty rare) and are a bit down on power, but they should require way less maintenance than the bimmer.

  If you can stand the automatic the E38 740i sport can also be had in that range. Much nicer back seat than the 5 and they're still fun to drive despite the size. 2001 is the year to look for (3 spoke steering wheel, widescreen nav, bodycolor rockers) and only short cars got the performance rear end ratio.

  I've been looking at sport sedans for the last 3 years. I might actually buy one at some point in time.

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  March 13, 2009 10:58 a.m. Joe Gearin Associate Publisher

  +1 on the Lexus is300

  If you can find a 5spd, lsd car they are really nice machines. Not quite as involving to drive as the M3, and no where near as fast, but really nice, fun cars. I've never quite understood all the bashing on E36 interiors,(not great, but not terrible) but I do prefer the Lexus interior to the BMW.

  I dont' agree with the Lexus requiring way less maintenance than the M3 though. My 97 M3 has 130K on it, and has been nearly trouble free.
  

  All older cars require a bit of care.

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  March 13, 2009 10:58 a.m. walterj Dork

  skruffy wrote: However, if you're interested in something the same size and price, I've been looking at the lexus is300. They were available with a 5 speed and LSD(although they're pretty rare) and are a bit down on power, but they should require way less maintenance than the bimmer.

  The is300 is a milquetoast driver with numb steering - it is not even close to a compaison. It loses to the E36 323i. The E36M3 is the E36M3... and its not a high maintenance car. Mine went 100k regular & 40k track miles (overlapped) with just wear items like rubber bushings, rotors, pads, tires, etc... never had any headaches at all.

  If you can stand the automatic the E38 740i sport can also be had in that range. Much nicer back seat than the 5 and they're still fun to drive despite the size. 2001 is the year to look for (3 spoke steering wheel, widescreen nav, bodycolor rockers) and only short cars got the performance rear end ratio.

  This is a true electrical engineer or BMW mechanic's car. They are awesome, cheap and mechanically reliable. The parts are $$$$, the electrical system is $$$$ and its very, very difficult to work on some aspects. There is a good community (S38.com ) and a lot of tech out there if you go this route.

  Bawitdaba-da bang-da bang-diggy-diggy-diggy Said the boogie-said up jump the boogie --Kidd Rock

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  March 13, 2009 11:31 a.m. TAftonomos New Reader

  Lots of good info, thanks guys/gals.

  I'm 6'5 /230, and the wife is quite tall as well 5'11. We rarely ever have any other adults with us in the TB, so I'm not sure thats a big worry. Just have to be able to access a car seat easily hence the 4 door requirement.

  Something I completely overlooked, and I can't believe I forgot about it.

  G35 sedan. Prices have plummeted on these in the past 2 years. I had an 04 loaded sedan that I sold for 17K 2 years ago..... 04-05 loaded sedan w/50k miles can be found for $12k these days. I sold the G before the baby got here....didn't like the near $460/mo payments on it. iirc, they are around 270hp, and I'm pretty sure the sedan can be found in a manual. Probably not so great on the mileage, but neither is the 540.

  I'm located in the Atlanta GA area, so if anyone has some leads on something that might work for me, it's greatly appreciated.
  

  The 535 would be great to go through and make into a solid DD.....but with the 11mo old, and 2 motorcycle projects, finishing a basement, and potentially having another little one coming....my plate is a bit too full for that.

  -Theo

  [URL="http://stores.ebay.com/D2XPerformance?refid=store"]Ebay Store[/URL]

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  March 13, 2009 11:32 a.m. pigeon Reader

  good luck fitting a rear facing car seat in the back of an E36 M3 with any adult in the front seat in front of that. I suspect the IS300 would be in the same category - great solo or 2 up, not so much for rear seaters. Heck, in my E46 328i my 2 kids, then ages 7 and 9, complained about the lack of rear seat room, and it was roomier back there than an E36. I'd go 540i or even 530i, which should be plenty entertaining and likely cheaper and more reliable but would lack the V8 fun.

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  March 13, 2009 11:40 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  Joe Gearin wrote:

  DILYSI Dave wrote: I was originally looking at E36 M3's when I ended up in my E39 540i6. The M3 has surprisingly little interior room. Less than my CRX had.

  I dunno Dave, my E36 backseat is way more accommodating than a CRX's rear.

  Yeah, rear seating in the CRX is a bit sparse. :)

  The driver seat legitimately was roomier in the CRX though. In the E36, the door panel crowded my left side, the bigass center console crowded my right side, and the seat would'nt go low enough / wheel wouldn't go high enough to let my knees breathe.

  The CRX was a freakin ergonomic milestone though. Loved that interior...

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  March 13, 2009 12:36 p.m. 81gtv6 Reader

  My wife and I went through this erly this year. We ended up getting a 03 SAB 9-5 Aero. They are well within your price range, one of the safest cars you can buy with plenty of room in the back seat. We have two kids in car seats and there is plenty of room. We picked up the car in Delaware and drive it back, at 75 the computer in the car was showing 33 to 35 mpg and once rolling they are quite quick. It is a stick though. One more thing about the SAAB. The dealer through in a set of 16in wheels and snow tires and all 4 fit in the trunk, I was impressed.

  I test drive a S60R, it was sweet but the back seat was way too small. If the car was just for me I would have it in the driveway right now.

  In my opinion most of the cars suggested don't have big enough back seats, except for the 5 and 7 BMWs and the G35.

  One upside to this is it is a great excuse to go drive a bunch of stuff, have fun.

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  March 13, 2009 12:58 p.m. 02Pilot New Reader

  I went from a 9-5 to my 525i. They are very spacious, comfortable, and get great mileage. The 03+ should not have the sludge problem that the earlier cars suffered from, and the Aero turbos were not as prone to grenading as the LPT units. Oil pumps are known to be problematic, and the wheel bearings up front don't seem to last very well. They are not the easiest cars to work on, as the engine is packed in there pretty tightly. Great on the highway, but dynamically inferior to the BMWs in almost every way IMHO.

  They are certainly an option if FWD doesn't bother you, and they are downright cheap due to catastrophic depreciation, but make sure to get an 03+ and double-check the PCV system - the hoses tend to degrade and fail.

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  March 13, 2009 1:22 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  BTW - on a slightly related note, if anyone's interested in a nice 540i 6-speed with a few upgrades (shifter, removed the delay valve in the clutch, etc), drop me a line.

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  March 13, 2009 1:33 p.m. Raze Reader

  This is just my opinion but with your first mouth to feed and a second potentially on the way, 2 bike projects and finishing a basement, wouldn't logic reign you into something SAFE(#1) and RELIABLE(#2), leaving 'sport' and/or performance by the wayside for a DD that your wife and child(ren) will be riding in? Could you sell one or both of your bike projects to start a fast/fun car w/o placing as much emphasis on safety or reliability since only you would be riding in it? I'm not trying to rain on your parade, I'd just make sure you stop and ponder your wants with your responsibilities...

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  March 13, 2009 1:53 p.m. walterj Dork

  pigeon wrote: good luck fitting a rear facing car seat in the back of an E36 M3 with any adult in the front seat in front of that. I suspect the IS300 would be in the same category - great solo or 2 up, not so much for rear seaters. Heck, in my E46 328i my 2 kids, then ages 7 and 9, complained about the lack of rear seat room, and it was roomier back there than an E36. I'd go 540i or even 530i, which should be plenty entertaining and likely cheaper and more reliable but would lack the V8 fun.

  No problem there at all with the M3. Both my boys started out in back facing the wrong way. The stroller and crap all fit in the trunk too. The only thing I would change is I probably would have got the '98 4 dr M3 because lifting the car seats in and out of the coupe was a pain. Not a dealbreaker... just a PIA.

  Now that they are 6 & 9 they fit quite nicely in the rear of a 911 C2 (no more gear to haul :) )

  Bawitdaba-da bang-da bang-diggy-diggy-diggy Said the boogie-said up jump the boogie --Kidd Rock

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  March 13, 2009 2:02 p.m. walterj Dork

  Raze wrote: This is just my opinion but with your first mouth to feed and a second potentially on the way, 2 bike projects and finishing a basement, wouldn't logic reign you into something SAFE(#1) and RELIABLE(#2), leaving 'sport' and/or performance by the wayside for a DD that your wife and child(ren) will be riding in?

  Logical. Bah. Since when are safe, reliable and sporty mutually exclusive. What are you... some kind of mole from the insurance industry? Its not like he asked:

  "I need a small, high CG pickup with seats in the bed to whisk my wife and small children around dangerous mountain passes in"

  Bawitdaba-da bang-da bang-diggy-diggy-diggy Said the boogie-said up jump the boogie --Kidd Rock

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  March 13, 2009 2:18 p.m. TAftonomos New Reader

  Well, logically the SUV does everything I need it to for the family....except get good mileage. Thats OK, I just want another option that we can live with besides putting everyone in a 20 year old car.

  Sell the bikes? Nah.
  

  I forgot about the rearward facing child seat part....my 11 month old is a monster and has been facing forward for a few months (was 7lbs when he was born....I think he was 28lbs at the last month's appointment).

  The M Car appeals to me a bit more than the 540, and the M5 is waaaay outta my price range right now. I'll need to find one to check fitment. 325i's of similar years same interior space correct?

  Then again, the G35 is a pretty solid all 'rounder.
  

  I'm headed to the VW dealership to check out some of the new diesel's. That mileage is awesome....just don't know if I'll like the other 99% of the car enough.

  [URL="http://stores.ebay.com/D2XPerformance?refid=store"]Ebay Store[/URL]

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