Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Learn me older Prius? 1 2 3

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  March 28, 2011 10:35 p.m. SVreX SuperDork

  Looking at an '02 with 150K on it. Owner says the batteries were just replaced, but I haven't seen proof of it yet.

  Drives well, looks good, has a funny ticking noise coming from under the hood- almost sound like a valve tap, but not quite. No evidence of abuse or accident.

  What are some of the things I should look for? Common issues?

  What are these worth these days? Are there know service timebombs?

  Carfax was clean, and showed most regular maintenance.

  I rented a newer one a few months ago and got 50 mpg for 1500 miles in a week. Are the earlier gens known for similar economy, or less? (The trip odometer said it was averaging 38.8 for the last 180 miles).

  I need a good long distance commuter.

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  March 29, 2011 6:03 a.m. integraguy Dork

  Toyota "seems" to have bucked a trend among car makers. That is, while each succeeding generation of a car usually gets heavier, and therefore LESS fuel efficient, especially considering that the engine gets larger....the older Priuses aren't quite as fuel efficient as the newer ones. As I understand it, even the 2nd gen. Priuses are less fuel efficient than the current model (the 3rd gen).

  Priuses, also (used to) hold their value quite well, tho I'm not sure that is still the case as more of them hit the roads and more wind up on used car lots.

  My sister swears by her 2nd gen. Prius, tho in fairness her car before that was a Mustang.

  I don't know how you verify the batteries "age" unless the owner provides receipts for their replacement.

  Finally, consider that for most cars, the GAS engine in a 150K mile commuter-mobile will have been used for 150K, while in a Prius, it's will most likely have been used for less....depending on how the car was used (mostly in town versus high speed runabout). In MY personal experience, a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla will also get pretty high MPGs when used for long distance commuting (assuming mostly/nearly all miles) with cruise control engaged. I have gotten nearly 40 MPG with my raggedy '97 Civic WITHOUT cruise (it's a "lowly" DX).

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  March 29, 2011 7:15 a.m. White_and_Nerdy Reader

  My gf had a first gen Prius. Good on gas. Not so good on the autox course (it was the first car she autoxed ). Just outside of warranty, it suffered a major electrical gremlin that took out the ECU and the big battery. Was NOT covered. A little while after that was repaired at great expense, the transmission went. It got traded in on a Fit.

  Just her experience, nothing more. Personally, I'd go for a clean CRX HF (if any still exist) over a hybrid any day. Except maybe the CR-Z (thanks to GRM's article) - I'd have to test drive one to make that call.

  - Justin

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  March 29, 2011 7:25 a.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

  Go to www.fueleconomy.gov and you will see that the hyw mpg of a '02 Prius is just a couple of points higher than a '02 Corolla. You mention that you need a hyw cruiser. The real benifit of Hybrid comes from its savings in city driving (where the gas engine turns off.) At hyw, a hybrid will not shine as much.

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  March 29, 2011 8:11 a.m. DaveEstey HalfDork

  Woman I'm dating has one (She says it's a fake car) with 80k miles on it and even with me driving it we were averaging 46mpg on the highway. Much much higher in downtown Boston though when I could use just the electric motor between lights.

  FWIW she has had zero issues with her car from new.

  I wasn't expecting longevity

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  March 29, 2011 8:19 a.m. dculberson Reader

  The 1st gen prius earns much lower reliability marks than the 2nd gen. Motor controller problems / etc. I would link to my source for that, but it was MSN Autos and they seem to have eliminated all the reliability info they had.

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  March 29, 2011 8:45 a.m. MadScientistMatt Dork

  I've heard there are a lot of early Priuses hitting the auctions with dead battery packs; that often costs more than the car's worth to replace. I'd definitely get a receipt on that one, as the battery pack is the biggest timebomb on these cars.

  "Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer

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  March 29, 2011 11:18 a.m. Type Q Dork

  My wife has a second generation Prius. They most efficient when commuting in stop and go traffic. You get the maximum benefit from the regenerative braking and Toyota's complicated drivetrain control systems. with me driving the car gets around 50 mpg in city driving and about 45 on road trips. They are very complex cars. A repair technition friend of mine, who sought out the proper tools and training to repiar hybrids say the Prius is a nice car to have with a warantee.

  If you are doing mostly highway driving on your commute, there are a number of good cars of the same general vintage that would be efficient comfortable drivers. The Civic HX comes to mind. It's a lighter than normal Civic with tall gearing. I think I has a special lean burn engine though I may be confusing it with the Civic VX.

  Tough times don't last. Tough people do.

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  March 29, 2011 12:01 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

  As mentioned, if you need a long distance commuter, a Prius isn't all that great at it. Check out the Insight, Civic VX, and older HF stuff. I just picked up an early Insight and I'm really, really digging it for a commuter car. If you can deal with two seats, it's hard to beat for the value/mile if you find an older one on the cheap. I'm kind of a sucker for the cool gadgetry too!

  Bryce

  Portland, OR | '69 Bug | '05 Saabaru | '67 122S | '07 Sky Redline | $2009 AWD Fiero Hybrid | '72 N600 | '00 Insight

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  March 29, 2011 1:27 p.m. wearymicrobe Reader

  I have a third gen, leased for 199$ or so month. Best car for pure transportation that I have ever owned. I drive about 500-600 miles a month and get on average 46.2mpg.

  The insurance drop and gas saving wiped out the whole cost of the car and then some allow me to keep the Viper for the weekends and sunny days. Not saying that you have to get a new one but I paid ~7.7K out of pocket for three years worth of use and I have gotten more then that back in savings and insurance reductions.

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  March 29, 2011 1:29 p.m. Travis_K Dork

  First gen neon will get 38 mpg also, and diesel vw's will get over 50 (you have to get pretty comfortable with saying "its only a grand" to drive a tdi much though). I dont think the first gen prius gets near good enough mileage to be worth the extra complexity.

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  March 29, 2011 2:15 p.m. White_and_Nerdy Reader

  Agreed - for primarily highway use, look into a fuel sipping gas burner (Civic, Neon, Saturn SL1), or consider a VW TDI. Diesel is more expensive, arguably worse for the environment, but the mileage is excellent.

  And, having taken a fun run in a DSG Jetta TDI Cup at an autox last year, I can say from experience that that car, in particular, is definitely NOT at all boring to drive.

  - Justin

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  March 29, 2011 4:06 p.m. YaNi Reader

  • Eleventy TDI

  Highway and hybrid do not belong in the same sentence. My mkVI Golf TDI gets 50mpg at 75mph. If you go the speed limit you can easily get 60mpg, and the older (and slower) 90hp diesels get better than that.

  wtf why does the plus sign make a bullet point?

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  March 29, 2011 4:31 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

  YaNi wrote: + Eleventy TDI Highway and hybrid do not belong in the same sentence. My mkVI Golf TDI gets 50mpg at 75mph. If you go the speed limit you can easily get 60mpg, and the older (and slower) 90hp diesels get better than that. wtf why does the plus sign make a bullet point?

  My hybrid Insight gets 65 mpg at 75 mph bone stock out of the box, the EPA highway rating was 70 mpg. Hybrid and highway fuel economy don't have to be mutually exclusive...the Insight has such low weight and awesome aero that it does great on the highway, and the hybrid part works in hand with that to do great in the city as well. The Prius, however, isn't light or aerodynamic. Sure, it seats more than two, and if you need that then the Insight can't play. It drives me nuts that everybody thinks a Prius is the only kind of hybrid...yuck!

  Bryce

  Portland, OR | '69 Bug | '05 Saabaru | '67 122S | '07 Sky Redline | $2009 AWD Fiero Hybrid | '72 N600 | '00 Insight

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  March 29, 2011 5:27 p.m. Travis_K Dork

  If you can afford it, yes, TDI is the best. They are just expensive to buy, and expensive to maintain.

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  March 29, 2011 5:37 p.m. fritzsch New Reader

  What surprises me is that the new Insight gets considerably less mpg than the early ones

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  March 29, 2011 6:01 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

  fritzsch wrote: What surprises me is that the new Insight gets considerably less mpg than the early ones

  An extra 900 pounds and worse aerodynamics will do that...not really surprising at all.

  Bryce

  Portland, OR | '69 Bug | '05 Saabaru | '67 122S | '07 Sky Redline | $2009 AWD Fiero Hybrid | '72 N600 | '00 Insight

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  March 29, 2011 6:01 p.m. mtn SuperDork

  fritzsch wrote: What surprises me is that the new Insight gets considerably less mpg than the early ones

  New Insight is not at all the same as the earlier ones. I'd compare the old Insight to the new CR-Z, the new Insight to a Prius.

  Anytime somebody tells you that vodka mixes well with anything, slide them a jar of mayonnaise and tell them to practice what they preach.

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  March 29, 2011 6:53 p.m. njansenv HalfDork

  Travis_K wrote: If you can afford it, yes, TDI is the best. They are just expensive to buy, and expensive to maintain.

  Not in my experience. They are certainly particular about maintenance, but if maintained according to what they need, it doesn't have to be pricey. DIY certainly helps. Finding a zero option car also helps. I can roll down my own windows. I LOVE the car as a commuter. It's great on the highway, you'd never guess it only has 90 hp. It's quiet, comfortable and I get 800-820 miles to a tank. (1300+kms)

  As a commuter, this car will save me $17000 over 5 years compared to driving my previous car, which got a reasonable 27mpg with premium fuel.

  Diesel fuel is more than gas now, but that usually reverses in the warmer months.

  If I was buying now (the currently high gas prices have inflated values on the TDI's again), I'd be looking for a very clean CRX or Civic Hatchback...maybe an Integra.

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  March 29, 2011 7:48 p.m. accordionfolder New Reader

  I'll second the 1st gen honda insight.

  I get 60-70 mpg depending on terrain, is a 5 speed, and is great fun in the corners (AL chassis and weighs nothing)

  Being a two seater sucks, and it doesn't have much room in the back considering it's a hatchback....

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  March 29, 2011 8:03 p.m. daytonaer Reader

  I think the first gen's look like echo's. Helps to not stand out as a prius imo.

  The gas engine is very similar to the one in the echo, which uses toyota's "shim" system to adjust valve clearance. It is my theory that lots of high mileage toyota's need valve lash adjusted (my mothers included) which accounts for the noise, but they all seem to live forever without it. I wouldn't really have any concerns about the gas engine part.

  Speaking of looking like echo's, we used to have an '01, it would get 42-43 mpg highway with an automatic transmission and synthetic fluids.

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  March 29, 2011 8:36 p.m. Apis_Mellifera New Reader

  I work for a government environmental agency and although we're not really concerned with mpg, but we do have a Prius 1 for PR purposes. I've been impressed so far. Providing you acknowledge its intended purpose, the Prius is quite good. I'd rather have a CRX if my goal was improved mpg, though.

  Our Prius has about 60K miles on it and makes the odd clicking sound under the hood now and then. It isn't related to the engine operation. We've had electrical issues, but I'd say it's related to lack of use. If the battery goes dead (enough), you can't jump start it from under the hood like you normally would. You have to jump it from the trunk-mounted battery and the trunk only opens via an electric switch.

  It will do 100mph and you can drift it, if that's relevant.

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  March 30, 2011 12:51 a.m. MitchellC Dork

  wearymicrobe wrote: The insurance drop and gas saving wiped out the whole cost of the car and then some allow me to keep the Viper for the weekends and sunny days.

  If you had to choose, would you rather have a bumper sticker on the Viper that said "My other car's a Prius," or on the Prius, "My other car's a Viper"?

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  March 30, 2011 8:41 a.m. Teh E36 M3 HalfDork

  MitchellC wrote:

  wearymicrobe wrote: The insurance drop and gas saving wiped out the whole cost of the car and then some allow me to keep the Viper for the weekends and sunny days.

  If you had to choose, would you rather have a bumper sticker on the Viper that said "My other car's a Prius," or on the Prius, "My other car's a Viper"?

  Yeah, I would venture to guess that you are the only person in America who owns a Prius and a Viper. Please get the bumper stickers suggested above. It is your duty to put your thumb in the eye of both camps!
  I actually think your choices are pretty enlightened and future-looking. Our primary cars will be appliances (electrical, nuclear, etc whatever), and our toys will be sportscars tucked into the garage until the next track day or autocross, where we'll gladly spend $15/gallon for a few hours of fun.

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  March 30, 2011 12:25 p.m. Vigo Dork

  I just picked up an early Insight and I'm really, really digging it for a commuter car.

  W00t, another 1g insight on the board.

  I'll echo what's been said about the 1g Insight. Its a VERY light, tossable car thats roomy for its weight and very practical. I love the hatchback area, even though it is semi-small. Its been fine up to and including weeklong ~3000 mile trips for two.

  I just took mine on a spirited drive through the hill country where i live. I drove it like a rally driver and had a great time. Honestly, if you put better wheels/tires on it, there's not enough power to get it up to the speeds it can corner at between turns. I'll be turboing mine to address this, but the point is if you like taking turns its a fun car.

  I only get 50-55mpg in mine, but i floor it almost everywhere and hit its top speed of ~108 every few days. Its really nice to be able to use 3rd gear anywhere between 50-110 mph. Its not fast by any means but because of the electric assist the powerband is nearly flat from 2k-redline.

  Turbo'd ones have seen good results. They have lost a few mpg but still remain above 50mpg. I've seen dynos showing a 50-60% power increase on just 5psi. One setup was dynod at 12 psi recently and made ~130whp/220tq. This is in an 1800 lb car that came stock with <60whp.

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