Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » How Hard To Clone an ITR 1 2 3

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  Dec. 27, 2009 5:37 p.m. 1966stang New Reader

  How Hard/Expensive would it be to do a decent clone of an Integra Type R?

  Thinking about my next autocross car...probnably going to do something with a GTI or a MCS...but the ITR article got me thinking.

  How hard is it to find a decent donor vehicle that isn't rusted, wrecked, or salvage titled?

  Are the 5 lug conversion pieces available?

  Any links to anyone who has done this?

  Chris

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  Dec. 27, 2009 5:55 p.m. P71 SuperDork

  The physical shell is different, so it's technically impossible. At the amount of money it would take to custom make the stamped pieces and re-weld the shell (on top of the suspension, brakes, engine/trans, etc) you'd have a ton more money in the clone than the real thing.

  Michael Pinto

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  Dec. 27, 2009 6:29 p.m. SpeedTheory Reader

  GSR + ITR Cams + Tune + LSD + Decent suspension setup = Just as good :).

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  Dec. 27, 2009 6:56 p.m. wbjones HalfDork

  not if you're trying to make it an ITR for SCCA solo 2 comp

  understeer: when you hit the wall with the front end,,, oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back end.... horsepower: how hard you hit that wall.... torque: how far you drag that wall

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  Dec. 27, 2009 7:39 p.m. 1966stang New Reader

  Not trying to go Solo 2 with SCCA in D stock...

  But if the GSR with the mods is just as good...

  Think I may have answered my own question there...thanks speed Theory!

  Chris

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  Dec. 27, 2009 10:08 p.m. skruffy Dork

  Keep in mind that the first time you leave it outside unattended it's going to be stolen.

  If this is for the street the RSX-S is a much easier car to live with and just as fast. Probably for much less money...

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  Dec. 27, 2009 11:04 p.m. gamby SuperDork

  SpeedTheory wrote: GSR + ITR Cams + Tune + LSD + Decent suspension setup = Just as good :).

  Sport Compact Car disproved a lot of that way back in 1997.

  Real ITR parts are getting harder to find, but 5 lug conversions are out there.
  

  The key to a real ITR is balance. The car is so perfectly balanced, it's obscene. A corner weighting with a high-end suspension is key. 22mm sway w/ subframe bracing will get the thing to rotate.

  The chassis has a bunch of extra bracing and a lot of sound deadening removed.

  Throw in an LSD. Can't remember how different the ratios of the GSR vs ITR trannies are, though.

  Throw in a very well-balanced, good-performing brake setup.

  I mean, you can come very close in a GS-R--I've seen it done very well 9 years ago (by a "grown-up" who is a very good autocrosser).

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  Dec. 27, 2009 11:28 p.m. splitime Reader

  As has been covered... chassis has different things you won't find on ANY other integra chassis. Mainly bracing.

  b16 transmission with itr lsd and FD would get you the transmission. Gsr engine, with swapped out pistons/crank (crank is heavier... but balanced more... i'd run the gsr crank balanced for a "better" than ITR crank). Pistons can be usdm 10.6:1 or JDM ( :) ) at 11:1... I'd do the jdm ITR pistons personally., b16 head with work done, then ITR cams/springs (ITR head is a very mildly hand massaged b16 head). Then you have the option of aftermarket headers.... as the only good ITR header was the jdm 4-1 model... the rest were minimal upgrades for the USDM b18 engines.

  What else.... 5lug was more weight.. just use gsr/ls 4lug brakes with a nsx caliper upgrade for the fronts, I think there is a rear upgrade.... but I forget the details. Suspension was a nice bolt on for integras (shock/spring), but aftermarket options end up better.
  

  Swaybars.... are a toss up. Many ITR owners loved to go with the 23mm JDM rear swaybar upgrade... I personally liked that rear bar and a 22mm LS front bar.... BUT BUT... that was on a civic hatchback with 18k front springs and 16k rear :p So take the LS/JDM combo with a grain of salt.

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  Dec. 28, 2009 12:21 a.m. 1slowcrx Reader

  +1 for splittimes set up....

  I've seen nearly that same combo done several times by a friend with an indy Honda shop. It works.... Although I would say go with Legend brakes instead of NSX. They are iron so heavier but much much cheaper... like near free

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  Dec. 28, 2009 8:55 a.m. Matt B Reader

  It's a minor difference, but the B16 tranny + LSD is missing one thing the ITR unit has - dual cone synchros. Not a big deal, but a little more durable.

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  Dec. 28, 2009 9:00 a.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  I had no clue more bracing was involved with the "R"

  shame so many got stolen, stripped, and burned to the ground.

  Non-Sequitor Alert!

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  Dec. 28, 2009 9:01 a.m. pres589 Reader

  There was an article in the magazine about this very thing recently...

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  Dec. 28, 2009 9:03 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  If you want more power than the setup that Splittime said (though i'm not sure what that does for your classing, to be honest).

  Substitute the pistons for CTR pistons.

  Buddy of mine threw together a B18B block, GSR crank, GSR rods, CTR pistons, B16 head w/ minor porting, CTR springs, and ITR heads, coupled with the CTR transmission, and it was SERIOUSLY fast, and a real screamer. It thought nothing of revving over 9k daily.

  1992 Celica GT (FSP), 1993 Ford Escort GT (HS), 1990 Mazda MX6 GT Turbo (13.27@118mph)

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  Dec. 29, 2009 10:02 p.m. racer025 New Reader

  I'm building a ITR clone for track use. I've already done the suspension with ITR conversion including Bilstine threaded body shocks & race springs with a 26mm rear bar. Engine is going to be a B20VTEC with some mods & the Hondata S300 management. Gearbox is a B16 Del Sol unit with a Spoon LSD & a 4.93FD. It's coming along nicely and will be painted Championship white inside & outside soon. BTW, if you swap the front knuckles & brakes off a 99 CRV you will have an ITR setup. They are exactly the same.

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  Dec. 30, 2009 12:05 a.m. 1966stang New Reader

  Keep it coming...not sure of what I want to do for the next car...but the article on the ITR in GRM got me thinking HARD.

  Biggest problem for me is that I told my friends on another board that I was going to swear off Japanese cars other than Miatas...that worked out about as well as swearing off internet porn.

  Seriously, any more info on building an ITR clone would be great.

  Chris

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  Dec. 30, 2009 12:08 a.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

  Building an Integra to outperform the Type R is certainly doable for less than the price of an ITR. Building an ITR clone though, I think you might spend as much as if you had just bought an ITR.

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  Dec. 30, 2009 1:46 p.m. Buzz Killington Reader

  skruffy wrote: If this is for the street the RSX-S is a much easier car to live with and just as fast. Probably for much less money...

  yup.

  44CS - www.GreyhoundAngelsAdoption.com

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  Dec. 30, 2009 2:43 p.m. z31maniac Dork

  Around here, nice RSX Type-S seem to be around $15k-17k.

  I'd think you could pick up a base Integra + suspension/wheels/tires/engine swap for much less then $16k.

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  Dec. 30, 2009 3:09 p.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

  Here's a good start: http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=26973

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  Dec. 30, 2009 8:23 p.m. 1966stang New Reader

  Thanks Per...didn't know I could still find a decent starting point that cheap!

  And thanks or introducing me to another place on the web to kill time when I'm not in the garage...

  Chris

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  Dec. 30, 2009 9:12 p.m. mndsm Reader

  I hear Miatas are a lot less stolen......

  Go fast or go broke.

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  Dec. 31, 2009 7:08 a.m. wbjones HalfDork

  from a Honda guys point of view it's easy to understand why

  understeer: when you hit the wall with the front end,,, oversteer: when you hit the wall with the back end.... horsepower: how hard you hit that wall.... torque: how far you drag that wall

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  Dec. 31, 2009 6:48 p.m. digdug18 Reader

  SpeedTheory wrote: GSR + ITR Cams + Tune + LSD + Decent suspension setup = Just as good :).

  Maybe a close 2nd, but still not a Type-R

  you guys forgot to mention that the ITR had a different steering box, and the reinforcement at the suspension points were from the factory. Meaning that if you have an actual ITR you don't need to worry about tearing out the chassis points when adding a larger rear sway bar. The gas tank also weighs less on an actual ITR, only 1lb or so, because all of the sound deadening is off the tank.

  Engine http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=35

  Transmission http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=36

  Chassis http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=37

  Features http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=38

  Suspension http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=39

  Andrew

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  Dec. 31, 2009 8:20 p.m. xci_ed6 HalfDork

  Didn't the ITR have passive rear steering in the rear lower control arms, similar to the '88 CRX?

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  Dec. 31, 2009 10:04 p.m. 1966stang New Reader

  Keep it coming guys...

  Want to learn all about the ITR if I can.

  THANKS for the links, digdug18!

  Chris

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