Seriously. Everything moves, everything's adjustable, everything's round, and everything's rusted. WTF. Tie rod ends shouldn't be harder than pulling an engine. Oh, and misadjust one thing and a gentle, 10 mph turn makes your tires sound like you're going 60 mph through a 90* kink on an autocross course. Guess I need to get my car aligned now, too.
Just bummed that I haven't had fun fixing my car in years. I used to like it.
Rebuilt my steering column before swapping in new tie rods. I actually got it all done properly on like the third try! I didn't mind it all too much. What car have you been working on? Your SL2 or your SL2?
- N. Sperlo -:-:- "Never take life seriously. No one ever gets out alive anyway." ~ ~ A strong tail wind can't hurt either...~~ K0HOF
That is tricky. It only comes with experience. My first 3 or 4 times replacing inners and outers, and/or ball-joints was tough. After a while you acquire some tools and experience that make things VERY much easier. I'm not a tool hound per se, but some of the special front-end specific stuff is worth its weight in gold.
You know you are deep in boost territory when you get tire pressures and boost pressures confused
DrBoost wrote: some of the special front-end specific stuff is worth its weight in gold.
You'll pay about that too.
- N. Sperlo -:-:- "Never take life seriously. No one ever gets out alive anyway." ~ ~ A strong tail wind can't hurt either...~~ K0HOF
Well, I don't much like working on steering. When I do, I tend to replace about everything. Tie rod ends and such are usually cheap for my old cars.
But when you're done, you have to do an alignment no matter how careful you are. Usually just need to set toe. Shoot, most of my cars that's all you can set anyway. So string and jack stands do the job just fine.
It's a pain, but when it's done, it's really satisfying to drive the car and know that it's working so well because of your hard work. I did a rack, struts and tie rod ends on my wife's 4Runner a few weeks ago. Talk about a PITA! It took me, no joke, 12 hours by the time I was finished. Tons of stubborn fasteners, needed a 12mm line wrench, hard to get at stuff (how can a car that big be so hard to work on sometimes). I hated it. But it works great now.
man...working on FWD Hondas for the past 4 years of my life, I thought going to GM and working on some of their FWD models would have been a walk in the park compared to their trucks. Nope I was wrong, the General's engineers found every which way to give you a headache when working on their cars. I USED to be a die-hard GM fan, now just an LSx powerplant fan and Corvette, nothing else. I hear you on the pains of working on GM FWD steering components. Special tool for this, special tool for that, oh wait you need a GM Tech 2 just to see if that's working properly.
You put the parts in, and drive to the alignment shop. Consider it part of the job.
The other thing is to work carefully and methodically. Measure distances when replacing tie rod ends, count turns of the securing nuts, bolts for parts, and read the shop manual. For example, when replacing the rear lower suspension arm on the Mazda, a little line in the manual says, "Tighten at ride height." If I hadn't, the bushings probably would have been damaged or torn. That was after having to cut the 10" long inner bolt into pieces, because it was installed before the gas tank was installed. I bought a new bolt, $20, rather than dropping the tank...so it's not just GM who screws up.
Be prepared for surprises, and do some home work.
N Sperlo wrote:DrBoost wrote: some of the special front-end specific stuff is worth its weight in gold.You'll pay about that too.
doesn't have to be.
You can get all three of these for less than a buck-twenty, maybe less than 1/2 that if you buy used.
Pops tie rods right out without damaging the boot:
Rusty tie rod adjusting sleeve? Ain't no thang
Zing outters out in seconds
Now, if you buy these from Snap-On they'll be the same OTC tools, but they'll expect a limb and/or a child or two.
You know you are deep in boost territory when you get tire pressures and boost pressures confused
DirtyBird222 wrote: I thought going to GM and working on some of their FWD models would have been a walk in the park compared to their trucks. Nope I was wrong, the General's engineers found every which way to give you a headache when working on their cars. I USED to be a die-hard GM fan, now just an LSx powerplant fan and Corvette, nothing else. I hear you on the pains of working on GM FWD steering components. Special tool for this, special tool for that, oh wait you need a GM Tech 2 just to see if that's working properly.
I felt that way about my old BMW and my current Mini. Special tools required for just about everything...
As a result, I love my Miata and my RX7!
This was on my daily-driven SL2. The other one is soon to meet it's end- it's too far gone to be worth keeping, a lot worse than I expected. If it was a wagon, I could come up with an excuse, but it's not.
I didn't need special tools, although they might've made it easier. I rented one of those tie rod clamp of death things (from Autozone), where you slip the one end under the steering knuckle and the other end has a point that screws down onto the rod end bolt, and it pops it out, but it didn't fit, so I used a hammer. Just as effective, and more fun.
I wasn't worried about damaging the boots, that's why I was replacing them. The boots were both dry-rotted away and had no grease and tons of dirt and gunk in them. Only a matter of time before they seized or started making noise. And the boots would've failed inspection, anyway.
Twin_Cam wrote: I wasn't worried about damaging the boots, that's why I was replacing them. The boots were both dry-rotted away and had no grease and tons of dirt and gunk in them. Only a matter of time before they seized or started making noise. And the boots would've failed inspection, anyway.
Failed what? Here in Michigan the only thing you need to register your car each year is the money.
In Michigan this is considered a fuel-savings exercise (low rolling resistance)
You know you are deep in boost territory when you get tire pressures and boost pressures confused
Did you do a visual alignment when you were done? Usually not to hard to get it 90% correct
Google: DIY string alignment.
I recently did a front end rebuild, and I took it to be aligned and they couldnt get the steering wheel straight. I got yelled at by both the tech who did it and the manager for complaining about it too.
Yea, the wheels looked straight, but upon driving it, I could hear the tires scuffing going down the road straight, and then screeching on gentle, low-speed turns.
I'll look into that string alignment, but it's already at the shop to have an exhaust flex pipe replaced (rusted straight through), so I told them to do an alignment while they had it. Blah.
Travis_K wrote: I recently did a front end rebuild, and I took it to be aligned and they couldn't get the steering wheel straight. I got yelled at by both the tech who did it and the manager for complaining about it too.
I hope that is the last time you use that alignment shop. They were just giving you E36 M3 for taking money out of their pocket by doing it yourself. Centering the steering wheel is a no-brainer for a good alignment tech. I would have gotten my money back and gone to their competition.
Why did you have the boots off? Replacing the entire rack only costs a few bucks more than the inners, and it comes with new inners already installed (and the boots).
Make yourself some toe plates. Other than having to borrow a crows-foot for the hydraulic line on the rack, replacing it and realigning it was super straightforward for me.
Agreed on the wheel centering. If they can't get it right, don't go there. Its a piece of cake.
Side note: What year is your car? The only steering component wear issues I have ever had on a Saturn have been on '94s
Side note 2: Move. Nothing was hard to remove or rusted on my car :)
I kinda figured out the string alignment on my own, but this guy has a good walk through.
Travis_K wrote: I recently did a front end rebuild, and I took it to be aligned and they couldnt get the steering wheel straight. I got yelled at by both the tech who did it and the manager for complaining about it too.Easy to do. Shorten one tie rod, lengthen the other. Steering wheel alignment is part of the job. One place I worked, I did a lot of re-alignemnts simply because the discount places didn't align the steering wheel.
ProDarwin wrote: Why did you have the boots off? Replacing the entire rack only costs a few bucks more than the inners, and it comes with new inners already installed (and the boots). Make yourself some toe plates. Other than having to borrow a crows-foot for the hydraulic line on the rack, replacing it and realigning it was super straightforward for me. Agreed on the wheel centering. If they can't get it right, don't go there. Its a piece of cake. Side note: What year is your car? The only steering component wear issues I have ever had on a Saturn have been on '94s Side note 2: Move. Nothing was hard to remove or rusted on my car :)
The boots on the steering rack were fine, it was the rubber surrounding the ball joints on the actual tie-tod ends that was deteriorating away, thus leaving them ungreased and exposed to the elements. At 146K miles, I'm surprised it took this long. Quite a bit of rubber down in the wheel wells will need to be replaced on my car quite soon. Time for poly bushings!
Side note 1: 2000. Possibly the worst year, other than 1991. AIR system, first year for the crappy Motorola ECUs, stupid self-adjusting clutches, couldn't get them with rear discs, heaviest, and the worst-looking. But it only burns a quart every 2000 miles. Which is 2 to 4 times better than any other Saturn I've ever owned. It'll also get 38 mpg with the A/C on, so I'll keep it around until I can afford my MS3 or WRX wagon.
Side note 2: The only place I'd consider moving is further north (NH, specifically), or out in the northwest (NoDak, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho) which won't make things better in the rust department. I don't do summers south of here. Right now, in southern central PA, it's 10:24 am and it's already 88 degrees. My ancestors are from cold, rainy Scotland and the Black Forest of Germany. I can't deal with this crap.
Mine has ~165k on it, and burns less than 1qt/3000 (pure luck). Its not bad for a $1000 car. I hope to keep it around for quite some time.
All of the clutches are self adjusting, and all of the hydraulics are self bleeding as far as I know. Just 2 different styles (00+ and 99-)
I'm Irish/Swedish/Dutch descent. I will never move north of where I am if I can avoid it 
I had the same problem when I was in college with a hyundai excel. took it in for new tyres and an alignment.. and the wheel came back crooked. I asked them to straighten it.. and they said they can't.. that's just the way it is. NEVER went back there
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