Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Grassroots Pre-smog sedan? 1 2

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  July 9, 2010 10:46 a.m. kreb Dork

  So I've decided to sell off one of my Miatas, and am starting to think about a small, vintage sports sedan. - something with trackday potential that's eligible for vintage touring rallys. In CA that typically means pre-1975. I don't have much money or time, so spare me the money pits. Here are my current faves:

  Volvo 544, 1800 Alfa GTV (pushing the budget)

  Also considering:

  61-63 Falcon early Barracuda Mazda Rotary pickup Volvo 122

  In general, old Japanese sedans don't make my pulse quicken. What else is out there? Extra points for the obscure and overlooked...

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  July 9, 2010 10:52 a.m. triumph5 Reader

  There was a nearly stock Mazda RX-2 on eBay yesterday. Fits your criteria, and is slowly going upward in value. They are rare. On the other hand, you want obscure and overlooked: Subaru 630 van, Triumph Herald,

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  July 9, 2010 10:59 a.m. Travis_K Dork

  Volvo 142

  Alfa Berlina/Gulia Super (GTVs are kinda like italian muscle cars, most of them are overpriced and covered in body filler hiding the many thousands of dollars of rust repair they need. I think they are better lieft for someone else to enjoy)

  BMW 2002

  fintail mercedes? doesnt quite fit, but its another not too expensive euro sedan.

  SAAB 96

  If a falcon would be ok, maybe some kind of slant 6 mopar?

  Thats all I can think of for now. Even in california, most of those type of cars are already too rusty to be worth bothering with unless you are going to do a complete restoration.

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  July 9, 2010 11:03 a.m. erohslc Reader

  Cortina? Cricket? Austin America? Early Capri? Fiat?

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  July 9, 2010 11:14 a.m. triumph5 Reader

  Yes, early Capri!! Esp the V-6 2.6 or 2.8. FASTT Add to that a Fiat Brava; one will be auctioned off with a bunch of other cars of similar ilk in Oregon(?) soon. I think it was mentioned in www.bringatrailer.com earlier this week. Or Dodge Colt. Mitsubishi with the 9 speed transmisssion. Shifting all 8 forward gears was fun, but second low was the hot ticket in traffic. Got good mileage, too.

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  July 9, 2010 11:20 a.m. pres589 HalfDork

  If you can find a mk1 Capri that isn't already badly dissolved then yes, I put my weight behind this. Can you run drivetrains installed by the factory that are non-original to your car? Boss-spec 302's from the South Africa factory would be great fun in one of these.

  Also, yeah, small-Valiant (not the early Exner tragedies) would be great, and the bits are waiting in junkyards to give you a 4-speed with overdrive. Rear axle in these is supposed to be pretty weak so be aware, and the brakes aren't too hot either. They aren't really that great in the Capri either...

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  July 9, 2010 11:20 a.m. Ian F Dork

  Budget? Level of 'finish' required? People carrying needs?

  I naturally lean towards Volvo's, but if looking for a pre-'75 sport sedan, it's hard to ignore the car that pretty much invented the genre: BMW 2002. That said, a nice one may be hard to find for used Miata-money... although that goes for many of these choices...

  FWIW, vintage pre-75 A-bodies have sky-rocketed in value... I've seen non-running, rust-buckets sell for $2K...

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  July 9, 2010 11:26 a.m. kreb Dork

  Volvo 142 Alfa Berlina/Gulia Super fintail mercedes SAAB 96 slant 6 mopar? Cortina? Cricket? Austin America? Early Capri? Fiat? Fiat Brava Dodge Colt.

  Love this place! I don't know jack about half those cars, so now I've got some homework to do. I had a '74 Capri with the 4-banger and hated it. A friend put a SBF in his and it was brutally quick, so perhaps there's hope.... 142/2002. Good ones! Aren't slant 6s underpowered for their host cars? Cortina's seem to be overpriced.....

  It is better to wear out than to rust out.

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  July 9, 2010 11:58 a.m. Ian F Dork

  Despite growing up with a slant 6 (my parents had a '71 Demon from '72 to '85), I can't really say if it was under-powered. The early ones were rated at a reasonable HP for their day... and definitely torquey.. and they're tough to kill... aftermarket for them is weak tho... There used to be headers and Offy made a 4-bbl intake for it that supposedly helps a ton (OE is a econo-1 bbl). Pierce sells a triple-side-draft Weber set-up as well... but then again, you said you didn't want or have time for a project... so...

  IMHO, the car that fits the bill with the least amount of modding will be the 2002. You might be able to find an already-modded 142 on Turbobricks and they're popular project cars and those guys are perpetually broke...

  A 142 will likely be the cheapest option and being on the left coast, finding a rust-free example shouldn't be too hard.

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  July 9, 2010 12:05 p.m. TucoRamirez Reader

  I just checked SF Bay CL & there are quite a few clean looking 2002s under $4K. A Daly City ad lists a trio of Saab Sonnets and spares, no price listed though. Also saw a clean looking GTV for $7.5K. The low buck early SLs & SLCs are interesting.

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  July 9, 2010 12:16 p.m. kreb Dork

  In reply to TucoRamirez: Yeah, I saw that GTV. It's rare to see a decent one under $10K. Still more than I can afford however. CL doesn't have any Berlinas or Gulias within 250 miles. Volvos are fun because the older ones have some style and make great q-ships because nobody expects them to be quick. What's the parts outlook for 2002s?

  It is better to wear out than to rust out.

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  July 9, 2010 12:29 p.m. pres589 HalfDork

  My first car was a Savoy with a 225 and the Holley 1-barrel running to a Torq-Flite and it was not down on power. It was down on revs and compression was something like 8.4 to 1 so I wouldn't have called it 'snappy', it just ran out of steam early.

  An overdrive A-833 4-speed would let 3.50:1 or so rear end gears not get to be too annoying on the road so that would help. I would not repeat would not install a 4-barrel carb on these things without a ton of work and at that point it's more like a drag car. I would probably look at that Offy intake and swap the carb mounting plate for the one for a 2-barrel (I believe this intake has that feature) or something similar and run a later 2-barrel carb. Or EFI. But on your budget I would probably just go with a 2 barrel carb of some sort.

  As for your '74 Capri experience, that motor was really a smog setup with all of those problems, and the much heavier rubber bumpers added to the very ends of the car. I think a '72 Capri is something like 250 pounds heavier while losing 15 HP with the changes to the 4-cylinder. The V-6 went from 2.6 to 2.8 to try and stay on parity with changes to keep the car emissions legal. If I were doing it over again I would have done a V8 swap instead of building my 2.6 up a bit and I had the '73 which was still lighter.

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  July 9, 2010 12:45 p.m. P71 SuperDork

  Anything AMC is going to be obscure and overlooked!

  A Hornet hatch would fit your needs nicely and you could either build a serious I-6 for it (4.6L, EFI, and a turbo if you're so inclined) or go V8 (and remember all AMC's use the same block, so a 401 will drop right in the spot of that 304.)

  Alternatively a Gremlin would make you the star attraction at any vintage rally, and is short enough to actually do the small-car stuff quite well. Same engine/suspension has a Hornet, shorter wheelbase.

  The 66-69 Rambler American was an excellent chassis as well, and very lightweight. It also has a much more "vintage" style to it's looks.

  Michael Pinto - GoKart / 93 Miata STS / 01 P71 Interceptor

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  July 9, 2010 12:51 p.m. Travis_K Dork

  There is actually a really clean looking gremlin in the holding area od the pick and pull near my house. (in northern California). If anyone is looking for one I can give you the address of where it is if you want to try to buy it.

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  July 9, 2010 1:20 p.m. GTwannaB New Reader

  Corvair. Unique, fun and relatively low dollar.

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  July 9, 2010 3:40 p.m. integraguy Dork

  I was thinking along the lines of the Capri/ Valiant crowd, until I read the post before mine. Yes, try considering a Corvair. It's available (depending on the year) in a variety of body styles. The 2nd gen. cars, be it 2 or 4 doors are ALL sexy hardtops....when is the last time (aside from a Subaru) that you saw a TRUE hardtop? They are economical and parts/aftermarket is decent.

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  July 10, 2010 3:23 p.m. GTwannaB New Reader

  Take a Corvair for a spin if you get a chance. I have autocrossed and done a time trial in my brother's basically stock Corvair, fun and responsive. I think they look awesome in race trim.

  
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  July 10, 2010 6:22 p.m. oldeskewltoy Reader

  kreb wrote: In general, old Japanese sedans don't make my pulse quicken.

  All Japanese sedans??
  

  

  510 2 door was a simple, reliable FUN 2 door sedan, either with the original L16/20, or with a more modern powerplant.

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  July 10, 2010 6:33 p.m. jrw1621 SuperDork

  I too was preparing to write Corvair.
  Seems that running examples are easy enough to find.

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  July 10, 2010 10:31 p.m. kreb Dork

  What do you guys think of the Corvair powerplant?

  It is better to wear out than to rust out.

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  July 11, 2010 4:11 a.m. integraguy Dork

  Even if you aren't crazy about the lowish HP ratings of the Corvair engines, it's relatively easy to swap a non-air cooled Chevy engine into it. Of course, when you do that, you are stepping out of the realm of family hauler.

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  July 12, 2010 9:15 a.m. Powar Dork

  I really like driving my 96. ~28MPG average and adequate power out of the V4. It looks cool and sounds great... and it was cheap. They almost always seem to be cheap. Its a great, amusing cruiser and very easy to work on.

  

  I drove it from UT to KY immediately after buying it on eBay, and I really am looking forward to more road trips in it now that I've worked out a lot of the problems that it had.

  Really, though, you can't go wrong with ANY of the cars that people have mentioned in this thread. They're all 'cool', and each has their own advantages and disadvantages. Go drive a bunch of stuff and decide from there.

  '90 Miata / '68 95 / '69 96 DeLuxe / '73 Sonett III / '90 900S / '91 900 / '85 Hilux

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  July 12, 2010 9:38 a.m. 81gtv6 HalfDork

  ^ One of those is on my "one of these days" list.

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  July 12, 2010 9:48 a.m. Rob_Mopar Reader

  Take a look at early '70's Plymouth Dusters and Scamp's. Scamps usually go for a little less than their Dart twin. Dusters have a more generous rear wheel well. A 318 Duster/Scamp with better exhaust and a 4bbl is pretty spunky, easy and cheap. If you're wanting to stick with a Slant 6, the 225 with a better flowing exhaust and the Super Six 2bbl from a Volare/Aspen or late '70's-80's truck is a good combo. Just make sure to grab the kick-down & throttle linkage off the donor vehicle at the same time.

  The Duster has a little shorter wheelbase. An 8 3/4 rear from a 'late '60's B-body is perfect under one and has the better 4.5" bolt circle. A disk brake setup from a later A ('73-76) bolts on, or you could get the 3/8" taller disk spindles off that Volare/Aspen/Diplomat that's donating the Super 6. You'll still need the later A-body upper control arms or some aftermarket ones.

  I just picked an avatar, now I need a signature?

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  July 12, 2010 12:43 p.m. GTwannaB New Reader

  OK, one more: Open Manta. 4cyl, 4spd, 4 wheel disc.

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