Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Good Japanese coilover brands? 1 2

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  April 15, 2010 9:17 a.m. z31maniac Dork

  I have to admit I'm overwhelmed by the amount of options for the 350Z.

  Coming from E30s, there weren't a ton of choices, and it was pretty well known what brands to use and what brands to stay away from. However, it seems nearly every "suspension setup" on the 350Z forums gets a good review. And who knows if the people doing the reviews even know what they are talking about.

  My initial Eibach/H&R + Koni Yellows for the car puts me in the $1100-1200 range, or entry level on some of the coilover setups. So if a few hundred more will get me adjustability, the ability to play with springs rates and still a high quality/durable/properly valved damper, might as well save up a bit more for the coilovers.

  Tanabe/Stance/Tein/HKS, I just have no idea which ones to look at or even which model inside each brand.

  Basically I want to get rid of the fender gap on the Z while tightening up the handling a notch, without turning it into a stiffly sprung track monster.

  The car will still be a DD and only occasionally see an Auto-X or HPDE.

  Any suggestions?

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  April 15, 2010 10:04 a.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

  Megan Bad!

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  April 15, 2010 10:05 a.m. scardeal Reader

  No, but I'll keep an eye on this thread... Assuming I'll ever get a good $1000 just to spend on my Z for fun...

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  April 15, 2010 10:16 a.m. Chris_V SuperDork

  NEX. Heard lot's of good on the BMW forums about them, and is the one recommended for the E38. I've been thinking about geting them for my car, as the entire kit costs less than just the Bilstein sport shcks to go with my H&R stage II springs...

  $700 NEX coilovers for the 350Z

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  April 15, 2010 10:26 a.m. Matt B Reader

  Can't help you much with anything Z-specific, but I've heard enough informed negative remarks about Tein that they are no longer on the radar. Inconsistent damping, adjusters that don't work, etc. The kinda stuff you usually associate with the cheap Taiwanese brands.

  I've also heard from more than one damper engineer that on average, the Japanese brands tend valve them with too much rebound, supposedly due to their smoother roads (maybe th highways? I didn't think the roads were all that nice everywhere in Nihon). Dunno, anybody here look at a variety on a shock dyno? I'd be curious as to whether or not this is true.

  Disclaimer - haven't bought them myself to see. For the most part this is all interwebz hearsay! (heresy? hehe)

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  April 15, 2010 10:29 a.m. z31maniac Dork

  MrJoshua, I do know enough to stay away from Megan Racing!

  Chris_V, NEX? Never heard of them, and this is someone who spent the last few years in the BMW community. And the price is my concern, how can an entire coilover setup that is cheaper than just Bilstein dampers, be at least the same or higher quality?

  If I'm going to bail on the Eibach/Koni idea, I want to make sure the quality/durability is at least the equal of Eibach/Koni setup.

  Have the GRM folks done a 350Z issue? Maybe now is the time considering how "affordable" early model cars are getting?

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  April 15, 2010 10:30 a.m. amg_rx7 Reader

  Whatever you get, make sure they are rebuildable here in the US w/o waiting for months. Out of your list, the Teins are rebuildable in CA.

  If all you are looking to do is decrease ride height to get rid of fender gap w/o turning it into a stiff beast, your best option is just a set of springs. Coilovers are mostly designed for stiffer setting for more aggressive usage. The cheaper the setup, the cheaper the shock, the worse the ride quality and quality of components used in that all important part - the shock.

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  April 15, 2010 10:59 a.m. z31maniac Dork

  ^Im aware of all the generalities on "getting what you pay for" which is why I was asking about direct experience.

  The ones I listed are not the only ones I would consider, just what came to mind while writing the post.

  I've initially started considering coilovers vs just springs, so that if desired, the car could be raised up for winter duties since this is now my only car. But again, not a huge concern.

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  April 15, 2010 11:07 a.m. stumpmj Dork

  Koni's are the way to go. I haven't heard of any of the budget coil overs being better than a set of Koni sports + springs. I've got Konis plus the stock springs and they're great. I bought the shocks used so they were <$500.
  

  BTW my stock springs have sagged abotu 2 inches so don't be surprised if "lowering springs" actually end up raising your ride height. I've been considering getting springs but it isn't really needed to balance the car. If I were to do anything, I'd have my Konis revalved and go to the T2 springs.

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  April 15, 2010 11:16 a.m. z31maniac Dork

  How many miles were on your car? Mine is a 2006 with only 22k miles. So I'd hope the springs aren't sagging!

  My main "concern" is it seems that most springs are progressive vs linear, and I'm not sure how I would like that. Although I did drive a friends 2004 E46 M3 with Eibach Sportlines and stock dampers and it rode remarkably well and had a great "stance."

  Then you look at two companies who make linear springs (Progress and Hotchkis) and they have wildly different front rates used (425 vs 340 respectively vs 320-330 stock I believe). But use similar rear rates, just a hair softer than stock.

  So then, I also think that if I went with Eibach/Progress/Hotchkis, I should also go with their sways since their springs/sways were likely developed to be used in unison.

  What about the Tokico DSpec adjustable struts? They seem to be getting great reviews, but then again, you don't know who is doing the review. And I don't think they come with the built in warranty/knowledge base that the Koni's do.

  If the DSpecs are as good as some say, the money saved over the Konis would just about purchase the sways.

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  April 15, 2010 12:30 p.m. AKADriver New Reader

  All of these are going to be application-specific, really, especially the cheaper kits. The cheaper you go, the more likely they're going to not bother tuning the dampers for each application... which means they could be good or they could be awful. I wouldn't trust any Taiwanese or Chinese brand like NEX, D2, KSport, Raceland, BC Racing, Megan, or Fortune unless I had seen the specific application track-tested.

  Then there are cases where the company just plain gets more feedback and more experience with a particular application. Stance's GR+ kit, for instance, is brilliant for the 240SX, but middling for the Miata. Tein Flex is the opposite.

  More expensive brands like JIC and HKS on up to Ohlins or Penske are consistently excellent products but you pay for their expertise.

  If you go the "lowering spring" route, see what RS-R makes for your car. When I had a 240SX the RS-R Race spring kit was the only one with rates that were actually stiff enough to keep the car off the bumpstops; it actually rode better even though it was stiffer.

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  April 15, 2010 12:50 p.m. d_jabsd Reader

  In reply to z31maniac:

  I have Tokico Illuminas with stock springs on my GTI. Have been using them for about 1.5 years. I've been very happy with them. You can get Ground Control Coilover kits for them. When i bought my Tokico's they were around $5-600 new... add ~400 for the GC kit and you are looking at $1k for a decent set of coilovers.

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  April 15, 2010 2:18 p.m. z31maniac Dork

  ^Thanks for the input, but none of those are options for the 350Z as far as I know.

  Well, the more I read about spring rates/drop/linear or progressive on just lowering springs, I'm starting to not see the point.

  It seems that nearly all the springs are only marginally increased in spring rate, and some are even less than stock. Most rear springs seem to be softer than the 2004.5+ revised rate as well.

  So I'm not really sure how you can remove .75-1.5" of suspension travel, without increasing the spring rate, and not expect to be riding on the bumpstops all the time. Which is the reason most lowered cars ride like crap.

  So now my follow up question.

  Do vendors/producers, allow you to choose different spring rates from the get go for Stance/HKS/JIC coilovers (these are the leaders of the mid-level coilovers, yes)? If not, are replacement springs easy to source and affordable like Eibach ERS and Hypertech are for domestic brand coilovers?

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  April 15, 2010 3:30 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  MrJoshua wrote: Megan Bad!

  I beg to differ. Megan good. Or at least my Celica likes it. So does my MX6. So does my Escort.

  I have their coilovers on the Celica, and their springs on the other two. I have absolutely zero complaints other than wondering why it took them so long to offer coilovers for my car.

  Don't confuse Megan with D2/Ksport.

  1992 Celica GT (FSP), 1993 Ford Escort GT (HS), 1990 Mazda MX6 GT Turbo (13.27@118mph)

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  April 15, 2010 3:42 p.m. RexSeven Dork

  Why not go German? KW and Bilstein both make coilover kits for the Z-car. Everyone here can vouch for Bilstein. I've heard nothing but good things about KW suspension. IIIRC they made the Mazdaspeed coilover kit for the MS3.

  Sit down. Strap in. Shut up. Hold on.

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  April 15, 2010 4:26 p.m. stumpmj Dork

  I've got 48k miles. I think the 40 track days may have put a hurt on them though. I'm still not hitting the bump stops so I guess you can drop a couple of inches without affecting travel.

  JIC coilovers are terrible. They're simply not durable. There's all sorts of examples out there (do a search at my350z.com) of leaking shocks, worn out mounts, and hugely variable damping curves and spring rates (part to part variability).
  

  If you want a high quality suspension without spending too much money, get the Konis and no springs (OK, get lowering springs if you really want them). If you want to spend a little more, Billstien makes good parts. If you want a top shelf track suspension, Call up TC Kline and get his T2 suspension. If you just want to get something to make the car low, buy whatever you want (it doesn't matter). For street use, a progressive spring will generally give you a nicer ride. For track use, it means that the suspension motion in variable. For the track, you want linear springs.

  I don't see any need to buy coil overs unless you're going to use them to corner weight the car. Lower the car with lowering springs if that's what you want. Get adjustable shocks to adjust damping.
  

  What are your plans for the car where you feel that coil overs would provide an advantage over a high quality shock or shock/spring combo?

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  April 15, 2010 4:39 p.m. digdug18 Reader

  HKS is the one to go for if your looking for a track monster, TEIN for more of a DD and occasional Auto-X car, both will set you back alot of money. Most go with Tein though, for there in cockpit adjustment system, called EDFC. What does NISMO offer as well? I have to ask though, why do you just want japanese coilover brands? are the US brands not good enough for you? What does Stillen offer? They seem to be THE shop to get product from if you have a nissan/lexus.

  Andrew

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  April 15, 2010 4:43 p.m. z31maniac Dork

  Plans for the car are DD with occasional auto-x and track day.

  But like I mentioned previously, the reason I think a quality coilover kit would be better from what (admittedly little research I've done) is that nearly all the lowering springs offer a lower spring rate than stock.

  And I'm supremely skeptical of how you can go lower, with softer springs, and increase the handling prowess of the car.

  Well I think I may have found THE perfect set of springs for the car. Coupled with the a set of Koni's, proper sways and bigger meats, should be perfect.

  The Whiteline springs seem to be about 15% stiffer up front and 6% stiffer out back than stock. With .8-1" drop up front and 1-1.2" drop out back (I'm guessing depending on weight/trim level). That seems to be exactly what I want.

  But now I can't seem to find anyone that sells the Whiteline 350Z springs. Crap!

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  April 15, 2010 9:27 p.m. Chris_V SuperDork

  z31maniac wrote: MrJoshua, I do know enough to stay away from Megan Racing! Chris_V, NEX? Never heard of them, and this is someone who spent the last few years in the BMW community. And the price is my concern, how can an entire coilover setup that is cheaper than just Bilstein dampers, be at least the same or higher quality?

  All I know is that they seem to work and last quite well on 4200 lb E38s.

  
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  April 15, 2010 11:25 p.m. DaveEstey New Reader

  I've had Tanabe's on my RSX for 3 years and 65k miles (including winter driving) and they still ride well.

  Tanabe uses KYB shocks, which I consider a plus.

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  April 15, 2010 11:46 p.m. maroon92 SuperDork

  I don't know if this works for anyone else, but I usually say "If I have heard of it, it is probably good enough." Obviously there are exceptions to the rule (like Megan), but, as long as it is not SHOCKS brand shocks, you probably can't go wrong.

  (just like I do not buy OIL brand oil)

  XBL GamerTag: bcbrownell Current Cylinder Count: 47

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  April 16, 2010 5:46 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  You guys are still confusing Megan with KSport/D2. NOT the same thing. They may be horrible for the 350z, i really don't know that. But i've got their products on all three of my cars, and the products are stellar in all three cases. Hell, i like them on the Celica better than i liked the last Koni/GC setup on a Celica that i drove.

  But meh. I'm not saying the OP needs to get them or anything, just presenting another viewpoint. Guess i don't care enough. Carry on.

  1992 Celica GT (FSP), 1993 Ford Escort GT (HS), 1990 Mazda MX6 GT Turbo (13.27@118mph)

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  April 16, 2010 5:48 a.m. z31maniac Dork

  Hehe, I'm not spending my money on something like Megan to find out. I seriously doubt that $800 coilover system is going to ride as nice as custom valved Koni's that I used on the previous to E30s.

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  April 16, 2010 6:05 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  z31maniac wrote: Hehe, I'm not spending my money on something like Megan to find out. I seriously doubt that $800 coilover system is going to ride as nice as custom valved Koni's that I used on the previous to E30s.

  I'm not debating that, but neither are the options that you listed in your first post. I don't know about their $800 setup, though, that's not what i sprung for.

  Like i said, i'm not suggesting you buy Megan, i'd expect more than one person's opinion would be needed to change your mind, so i'm not even going to bother trying, i'm just saying that i like them, because it seems that i'm one of the very few people in this thread that have tried them personally.

  Does Function and Form make anything for your car? I have heard some good things about the Stance setup, actually. I know they're popular locally with the drifting community and they seem to hold up well, but because i've only seen them used on drift cars personally, i'm not sure that they're really what you're looking for.

  1992 Celica GT (FSP), 1993 Ford Escort GT (HS), 1990 Mazda MX6 GT Turbo (13.27@118mph)

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  April 16, 2010 6:47 a.m. z31maniac Dork

  Definitely function and form. Which is the Whiteline springs would be perfect, however, I've only found one place so far with them for sale, and they only had the front coils for sale.

  THey are the perfect drop/rate/linear that I'm looking for.

  Which is why I've been tirelessly researching this all week. I want to upp the handling a bit, get a decent stance, without totally ruining the "GT-esque" ride quality. But mildly stiffer springs/struts and lowered ride height would be phenominal.

  Then it will just be down to Koni's/Bilsteins. So still a bit before I save up for all of it. But I usually research stuff to death before I purchase it.

  The only reviews I've read on Megan on the 350Z boards are guys who type like this, "Yaeh mon my MEgan setup is rael gud, i can haz my car rael leaux and dorifuto don teh off ramps"

  And like mentioned earlier, a company may have their valving spot on for one vehicle, and it be terrible for another. I will admit I'm curious about "Stance" brand coilovers, but not sure I'm curious enough to buy them without riding in a car that has them. I also don't like that it seems most of the Japanese coilovers say "Here are teh rates with our coilovers." Where as places like Ground Control/Vorshlag tailor the setup to suit your needs.

  If I can find a vendor with the Whiteline springs I'm going to go ahead and buy them.

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