free track simulation software: Grassroots Motorsports forum: Classic Motorsports

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Nov. 11, 2009 10:15 a.m. klipless New Reader

I haven't seen a mention of this on GRM yet, so I figured I'd throw it out there. It's free, and it'll help you go 'round the track faster, two things that I think will endear it to this crowd.

Bosch Motorsports has come out with a pretty nifty simulation package called LapSim. There's a free version that allows you to tweak 26 parameters, and a pro version ($8k I think), that gives you some finer-grained control over everything. I use the pro version at work, and it's given me some pretty accurate results, but the free version still has a lot of the functionality.

You can grab it here: http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/language2/html/3859.htm

It really helps if you have some datalog'ed data from you car that you can use to correlate with the model. Here's a good primer article written by the guy who wrote the software. http://www.tuev-sued.de/uploads/images/1134742807425334568579/15_van_rutten.pdf

I'm in no way affiliated with the product, I just use it at work and though the crowd might get a kick out of some free lap simulation software.
Nov. 11, 2009 10:47 a.m. ReverendDexter HalfDork

Wow... that price jump is incredible. Free or 5460 euros?

Google says that's $8200 at the current exchange rate.

--There is no turd more polished than the Ford Mustang--
Nov. 11, 2009 10:52 a.m. klipless New Reader

ReverendDexter wrote: Wow... that price jump is incredible. Free or 5460 euros? Google says that's $8200 at the current exchange rate.

Yeah, no doubt. In my opinion, the free version offers 70-80% of the functionality. However, if you're a race team, $8k is nothing compared to saving a few hours of track time, especially when you can roll a car off the trailer and be closer to the fast setup than you would have been otherwise.
Nov. 11, 2009 10:57 a.m. Buckhead Reader

How do you download it? it says i need a customer number.
Nov. 11, 2009 11:24 a.m. klipless New Reader

Buckhead wrote: How do you download it? it says i need a customer number.

I think you can just fill out the form below the customer # to get one. Yes you're giving you info to the man, but I think that's just the way their website is set up since they sell to a lot of race teams.
Nov. 11, 2009 5:06 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

I gave them my info to see what it's like. I'm waiting for approval.

...in the world.
Nov. 12, 2009 3:09 p.m. Buckhead Reader

ok just got approved.. huge download..
Nov. 12, 2009 3:37 p.m. joepaluch New Reader

Well just signed up with the Bosch Man. Waiting for my customer number.

Well maybe I will get some cool motorsports junk mail from them.

Joe Paluch - NASA 944 Spec - Arizona - 4th 2009 NASA Nationals
Nov. 12, 2009 3:40 p.m. Buckhead Reader

use a dummy email. thats what i did
Nov. 12, 2009 3:40 p.m. Buckhead Reader

the download is 149mb...
Nov. 12, 2009 4:12 p.m. joepaluch New Reader

Motorsports spam is hardly spam at all.

Did they send you an e-mail with the customer number in it?

Joe Paluch - NASA 944 Spec - Arizona - 4th 2009 NASA Nationals
Nov. 12, 2009 10:50 p.m. Salanis SuperDork

I can't get it to work. It keeps giving me an error about a missing .dll file.

Edit: Okay, I got it running. You do need to read the install directions. Now... I'm not quite sure I know how to use it. I guess I'll need to read the manual, and try to find files for local tracks and for a miata.

...in the world.
Nov. 13, 2009 7:06 a.m. YaNi Reader

I didn't need to register to download LapSim Basic 2009.

In the PDF link above there is a link in the second paragraph of the first page. This will take you to the English website home page. The in the links on the left side there is one called Software, it is under Downloads. Then go to the bottom of the Software page and there is LapSim Basic.

On a side note I can't get it to install correctly on Windows 7. I've tried compatibility modes. MatLab installs fine, but if I go into the LapSim folder and double click on setup it brings up an error message:

The version of this file is not compatible with the version of Windows you are running. Yada Yada Yada
Nov. 13, 2009 8:35 a.m. joepaluch New Reader

Ok, Found the link...

Now I guess I did not need to given them any info. Oh well.

Lets see how the download goes.

Joe Paluch - NASA 944 Spec - Arizona - 4th 2009 NASA Nationals
Nov. 13, 2009 8:58 a.m. klipless New Reader

YaNi wrote: On a side note I can't get it to install correctly on Windows 7. I've tried compatibility modes. MatLab installs fine, but if I go into the LapSim folder and double click on setup it brings up an error message: The version of this file is not compatible with the version of Windows you are running. Yada Yada Yada

We run it on XP at work. I don't have any experience with Win7, but I thought I remember reading somewhere that could make programs run in "XP compatibility mode". Perhaps if right click on the icon and go to properties, it might be an option. Again, no Win7 on my end, so I can't try it.
Nov. 13, 2009 9:08 a.m. joepaluch New Reader

I downloaded it... Then I noticed I got my email back from Bosch and they gave me the same link. Ha.. Anyway i have not tried to install it, but the email did say it would not work with Windows 7.

Next step is to install.

http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/content/language2/html/3589.htm

Joe Paluch - NASA 944 Spec - Arizona - 4th 2009 NASA Nationals
Nov. 13, 2009 11:06 a.m. joepaluch New Reader

installed and working.

Ideal lap for my 944 spec car at Mosport 1:39.20

Of course I have never run mosport so I have no clue is it correct. That and my sway bar spring rates are guessed as well as tire grip.

Now I just need to calibrate by plugging in my local track.

Interestingly I am longing for those extra parameters. Of course 8k is crazy money, but it is a pretty cool too. I did see that by shifting at 6200 instead of 5500 I cut off about 1.5 seconds accel time from 4500 rpm in 1st to 100 mph.

Also I gain 0.2 shifting at 6200 instead of 6000. There is valueable info already.

Joe Paluch - NASA 944 Spec - Arizona - 4th 2009 NASA Nationals
Nov. 13, 2009 11:10 a.m. joepaluch New Reader

Plus I can run the lap in simulation to see the estimated speeds in every spot on the track and which gear to run in. I even gives an estimated g load and steering input.

Joe Paluch - NASA 944 Spec - Arizona - 4th 2009 NASA Nationals
Nov. 13, 2009 11:12 a.m. joepaluch New Reader

Then I soften the front sway bar from 50 N/mm top 40 N/mm and my lap time increased to 1:40.16

THIS IS SICK...

Joe Paluch - NASA 944 Spec - Arizona - 4th 2009 NASA Nationals
Nov. 13, 2009 11:29 a.m. klipless New Reader

joepaluch wrote: Then I soften the front sway bar from 50 N/mm top 40 N/mm and my lap time increased to 1:40.16 THIS IS SICK...

Unless you have some data log data to back it up, I would focus less on overall lap times, and more on the changes in lap time if you were to tweak part A.

Also, in using this at work, I've found that it can sometimes over emphasis front roll stiffness. Sometimes if you make that change in real life, the car will just understeer more.

The software is based on a quasi static model of the vehicle. Which means that dampers don't play a part at all. As far as the software is concerned, the car is driving on a perfectly smooth track. Obviously in real life you'll still have to tune the dampers for turn-in dynamics and rough road holding.
Nov. 13, 2009 11:39 a.m. joepaluch New Reader

Yeah it has it limitations. However it looks like a great way to try alot of stuff before hand then when you get to the track to you have only a few set-ups to test vs all of them. Then you can back load in real data and further tweak the parameters.

It seems like if use this software well you can cut down 8 hours of on track testing time in to 1 hour. That seems pretty darn good if you only have 1 hour practice time.

I am a mechical engineer in aerospace so I know simulations are never perfect, but the closer you can get on a computer the easier it is in the real world.

Now if I can only get my tracks layed out then I might be able to really learn something.

Joe Paluch - NASA 944 Spec - Arizona - 4th 2009 NASA Nationals
Nov. 13, 2009 2:02 p.m. joepaluch New Reader

klipless.

Since you use the program how do you upload data. The manual says it needs a .csv file with lat , Long, & speed data. I have exported one for one lap. Yet it won't take it.

Data looks like this (I added the extra space between the lines for this forum). Not sure why does not want to take.

Time , Lateral G:3,Accel G:3,GPS_MPH:3,

0.0000 , -0.04, 0.10,104.75 ,

0.0200 , -0.06, 0.08,104.79 ,

0.0400 , -0.05, 0.09,104.83 ,

0.0600 , -0.04, 0.06,104.87 ,

Joe Paluch - NASA 944 Spec - Arizona - 4th 2009 NASA Nationals
Nov. 13, 2009 2:32 p.m. klipless New Reader

In reply to joepaluch:

I typically use GPS data for the track creation (integrating accel data can get messy and sometimes the track will turn back on itself). Most of the data files I use come from a DL1, so YMMV.

Here's what the header of one of my files looks like:

time [s],loncg acel [g],lat accel [g],vector accel [g],speed [mph], etc

9925.35 , 0.3500169 , 0.1335971 , 0.3757827 , 76.52584, etc

I'll see if I can find a document that spells out what column titles it's looking for.
Nov. 13, 2009 2:58 p.m. klipless New Reader

Here's something on assembling track files

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1352221
Nov. 13, 2009 4:56 p.m. joepaluch New Reader

crap, Stil can't get the header right..

Now I get it to read, but it says "elapsed time" not found.

Format,MoTeC CSV File

Venue,

Vehicle,

User,

Data Source,MoTeC ADL 2,

Comment,

Date,

Time,

Sample Rate,

Duration,

Segment,

Elapsed_time,latacc,longacc,wheelspdlf

s,g,g,mph

0.00,0.1,-0.04,104.75

0.02,0.08,-0.06,104.79

Joe Paluch - NASA 944 Spec - Arizona - 4th 2009 NASA Nationals