Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Fiat X1/9 vs Lotus Europa 1 2

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  Feb. 7, 2012 11:43 p.m. Hasbro Dork

  Apexcarver wrote:

  FlightService wrote: In reply to SVreX: Fortunately I am 6'4" tall and it has already been stated that a 6'2" guy needs a gurney bubble. I would need a porthole.

  sit in one yourself and see... different seat, removable steering wheel could help.. plus the one I sat in had a sunroof.

  I'm 6'2" and was quite comfortable in my 74. But I really like small interiors. Also found it very easy to get in and out of.

  An X1/9 will be my next project car but I would still prefer a Europa.

  Add Lightness

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  Feb. 8, 2012 12:30 a.m. fast_eddie_72 SuperDork

  Man, I LOVE Europas! I'd pick that in a heartbeat.

  

  Maybe I'm crazy, but I think they're awesome looking!

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  Feb. 8, 2012 2:57 a.m. ahutson03 Reader

  All positives aside, I have a set of 12" cosmics sitting in the garage that need a europa so they can be put to good use, I dont care how cramped I would be

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  Feb. 8, 2012 7:24 a.m. RossD SuperDork

  Europa for sure. There's a guy in my neighborhood that has a Europa with a big Chevy Flags-crossed symbol on the back deck... last time I saw it, I guessed it had a V8 in it...

  00100001

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  Feb. 8, 2012 7:47 a.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

  X1/9. It is pretty and handles better. IMHO the X1/9 is the best sports car of the '70s and '80s.

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  Feb. 8, 2012 8:47 a.m. Otto Maddox SuperDork

  In reply to 93EXCivic:

  Good lord man. That is quite a claim. I require some well thought out reasoning with a comment like that.

  Barba non facit philosophum

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  Feb. 8, 2012 8:49 a.m. Otto Maddox SuperDork

  At this point in life, I am not interested in owning any E36 M3ty 70s car with their awful interiors, electrical issues, weak horsepower, emissions and related drivability issues, etc. unless I was going to make it into a race car or pretty much retromod the whole thing.

  Barba non facit philosophum

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  Feb. 8, 2012 9:26 a.m. Woody SuperDork

  darkbuddha wrote: I propose Lotus Europa vs. Lancia Scorpion:

  It's no secret that I've wanted a Europa for a long time. But I'd rather have a Scorpion.

  This is the sort of thing that people who like this sort of thing will really like.

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  Feb. 8, 2012 9:52 a.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

  Otto Maddox wrote: In reply to 93EXCivic: Good lord man. That is quite a claim. I require some well thought out reasoning with a comment like that.

  I probably should have said affordable sports car. The engine makes a great noise, they look great and they handle really well. Also I can fit in one.

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  Feb. 8, 2012 10:14 a.m. kreb SuperDork

  jmc14 wrote: I've had a thing for the Europa ever since the late 60's. As a kid my neighbor had one. I drooled over it. I still like them. But, I am 6'2" and 230lbs. Probably would not work for me.

  I'm 5'-11" 210 lbs. and sitting in one - much less getting in one is an unpleasant experience. I'm fairly sure that Colin Chapman designed it to be a comfortable fit on a 5'-7" skinny guy. Too bad, because I've always had the jones for one. But in the real world, for every one I see driving, I see four "waiting to get back on the road", which is code for "after I fix about 10 niggling things and two major ones...."

  It is better to wear out than to rust out.

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  Feb. 8, 2012 11:49 a.m. Argo1 New Reader

  I lusted after a Europa when I was in Jr. High....then I grew up. Now they don't come in my size. I'm a size 11. They only come in a size 7. Seriously, the Twincam version added a dropped floor to give enough room for 6 footers (barely) however if your shoe size is larger than an 8 you will be driving barefoot in order to hit just one pedal. They are completely kick ass to drive though. My son and I are both over 6' which is why our Lotus Challenge car is an Elite. We fit!

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  Feb. 8, 2012 12:13 p.m. Ian F SuperDork

  No contest. I'd much rather have a non-running Europa in my garage than almost any non-running Italian car, since that would likely be their state most of the time.

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  Feb. 8, 2012 12:40 p.m. intrepid New Reader

  I wanted a Europa for the longest time, but after looking at a few and talking to some owners, I decided to get an SW20 MR2 instead. Still like the Europa but I think an X1/9 with the right setup (motor, specifically) would be a much more satisfying car for most people.

  -chris r.

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  Feb. 8, 2012 1:11 p.m. Matt B Dork

  intrepid wrote: I wanted a Europa for the longest time, but after looking at a few and talking to some owners, I decided to get an SW20 MR2 instead. Still like the Europa but I think an X1/9 with the right setup (motor, specifically) would be a much more satisfying car for most people. -chris r.

  Funny you mention that, as I went through the same thing between a 914 and my AW11 MR2. Doesn't mean I think the Japanese stuff is infinitely superior, but it certainly wasn't the right time in my life to play with things old and European.

  For the record, as much as I love all things Lotus I'd go with the X1/9. Maybe my MR2 has endeared me to wedge shapes?

  Here's a question though - which one had the better suspension design? I haven't found much info online in my admittedly cursory search, but it seems like they both used versions of a chapman/mcpherson/whatever strut design. Wiki had a unusual blurb about the Europa front suspension that caught my eye. Maybe someone here can elaborate a bit, i.e. not sure how radius arms can provide the benefits of a wishbone, but whatever.

  Wiki says: "The forward radius arms were increased in size and rigidity, to act as a semi-wishbone.

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  Feb. 8, 2012 1:47 p.m. Dr. Hess SuperDork

  I've owned and driven both a 20 valve AW11 and a Europa TCS, mildly built as noted above. When I had the AW11, I thought "This thing needs to lose about 1,000 lbs, then it would be just about right." And also, "This motor would be FANTASTIC in a Europa."

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  Feb. 8, 2012 4:42 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  Matt B wrote: Here's a question though - which one had the better suspension design? I haven't found much info online in my admittedly cursory search, but it seems like they both used versions of a chapman/mcpherson/whatever strut design. Wiki had a unusual blurb about the Europa front suspension that caught my eye. Maybe someone here can elaborate a bit, i.e. not sure how radius arms can provide the benefits of a wishbone, but whatever.

  Wiki says: "The forward radius arms were increased in size and rigidity, to act as a semi-wishbone.

  THe X used struts all around. Basically the front and rear suspension designs were same as the front of the Fiat 128. The rear even had adjustable links where the tierods would have attached for the steering mechanism

  Be careful of your words, for someone will agree with them. Be careful of your conduct, for someone will imitate it. -Leih Tsu

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  Feb. 8, 2012 5:45 p.m. Argo1 New Reader

  The Europa (Elite, Esprit, too) uses double wishbone front suspension and trailing link rear suspension which uses the half shafts as the upper suspension links. The factory geometry and bump steer is brilliant but the only adjustment that can be made is toe. Everything else is set unless you modify.

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  Feb. 8, 2012 6:19 p.m. racerdave600 Dork

  Much more interesting than the 914 post.... I'm a huge X1/9 fan, but given the choice, it would have to be the Europa. There's just something about a Lotus, they make you feel like you can do anything with the car. Even 40 years on it's a car that makes want to go another lap, just because you can. Truthfully, I can't think of modern car that gives you the same driving impression, except for maybe a new Lotus, maybe.

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  Feb. 8, 2012 7:22 p.m. FlightService SuperDork

  Looks like this goes to the Lotus...

  A damn it you all stop tempting me with project car that I think I can't fit it in then you tell me to go fit in them and see.

  Your just like that damn dealer that told me to drive the C5 Z06 and then was pissed when I wouldn't get out.

  Your Momma is so ugly Dick Cheney shot himself in the face

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  Feb. 8, 2012 8:09 p.m. Dr. Hess SuperDork

  I'm 6'. I fit. I fit a lot better when I weighed 135 lbs, but, hey, WTF. Now, all you newbies need to know that these Loti are not "regular" cars. You don't get in one. You put them on. Really. Even my Esprit, which is BIG by Lotus standards. You put it on like your pants, one leg at a time. If you're a munchkin, 5'6", etc., then you can get in normally, but bigger than that, you just put it on. Grab the seat, right leg in, grab the sill, left leg in, slide... In, close the door. You should see my friend at 6'3" get in the Esprit. It's pretty funny. Even funnier is him getting out.
  

  My brother is 6'3". He got in my Europa once, passenger seat. His head hit the roof, but he was in. I dunno if he could have driven it. Probably not.
  

  Oh, you know why the suspension is not adjustable? The word in Loti circles is that the old man, Chapman, said to make the suspension not adjustable, because look how bad they could screw up a carburetor with nothing but a screwdriver.

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  Feb. 8, 2012 8:22 p.m. Raze SuperDork

  When factoring price, I'd say X1/9. When factoring pedigree, I'd say Lotus.

  This argument is akin to Corvette vs Ferrari IMO...

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  Feb. 8, 2012 11:18 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  Dr. Hess wrote: Oh, you know why the suspension is not adjustable? The word in Loti circles is that the old man, Chapman, said to make the suspension not adjustable, because look how bad they could screw up a carburetor with nothing but a screwdriver.

  I can believe that

  Be careful of your words, for someone will agree with them. Be careful of your conduct, for someone will imitate it. -Leih Tsu

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  Feb. 9, 2012 11:34 a.m. wlkelley3 Dork

  For the tall guys and Europa's. I know someone that has had ceveral Europa's and he is 6'4". He modded his to fit by taking the seatrails off the seat and sitting the seat inside the car. When you fasten the seat belts you are basically strapped in and the seat won't move but gives you a couple inches of setback and lowering of the seat.

  As for Europa & X1/9, I think I would go for Europa just for being not as common as the Fiat.

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