Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Fast Euro sedan, educate me 1 2 3

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  Feb. 7, 2011 11:20 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  Well, it's not exactly a secret that I don't like my truck and that I need something more quiet for long distance travel as I'm a little susceptible to noise and enough constant noise can trigger migraines. Which I can really do without.

  So, my wife and me had a little brainstorm while lugging our Ikea loot back on Saturday and tried to figure out which of my purchases of the last few years we both liked and that had at least four seats that were adult sized.

  The list isn't super long, so for the purposes of discussion, here it is:

  • mid to late 90s Audi A8. So far the only Audi I actually like driving - I have driven a lot of them as a student when I was a driver for Avis and loathe most of them. Downsides I know of are the potential for gearbox problems and the fun work to change the timing belt. Bonus because it's AWD which means I can drive it year round (I mainly commute by motorbike in the summer and only really need the DD for DD duty when it gets too cold and snowy). Big downside is that minor prangs can lead to massive bills due to the all aluminum construction. Surprisingly good on fuel for a car that size. Oh, and I could stick chromed mirrors on and pretend I'm in Ronin ('cos the budget doesn't stretch to an S8).

  • Mercedes, probably a W124. Ann likes them a lot, I like a good one (I had a bunch of bad ones, too) and I just figured out that you can get a decent 400E for around $4k. They're not the hot rod the 500E is but they're a lot cheaper and only marginally harder on the gogo juice than the 300E. Also considering one of the turbodiesels, probably a W116 or W126 S-class. Very good on fuel, just a little slow. Downside on all of them is the limited winter usability unless I buy a 300E 4matic.

  • BMW 5-series (probably late E34, maybe an E39 528i, preferably a touring). Again, I had a couple, I like them, Ann likes them and they're fairly cheap. Downsides, the same as the Mercedes as the 525ix was never imported into the US.

  Not a fan of VWs, that's why they're not on the list. Volvos - well, my stepdad drove a lot of them, that might rekindle bad memories. Seen a few early cross countries in my budget (up to 5-6k) but they don't light my fire. SAAB - well, notice a theme up there? Don't want FWD. Jaguars - well, I'd like an early (6 cyl) XJ-R but I doubt I can get that in my budget. Plus I don't know if that's not a bigger headache than buying a Land Rover.

  Can't really think of much else - I find Subarus a little Meh, Lexus is mostly out because Ann doesn't really like them and I'm not dead enough yet to rock a beige Camry.

  Comments and/or suggestions?

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  Feb. 7, 2011 11:36 p.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

  A Mercedes Benz with an OM603 and add Holset, Myna injection pump, intercooler and 3" exhaust.

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  Feb. 7, 2011 11:44 p.m. SlickDizzy SuperDork

  I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE my E34 touring. Even with the current rally car 4.11 diff and 5-speed (read: 3900RPM at 70 in 5th), it returns about 22MPG in town and about 34 on the freeway. I would run away screaming from an A8, having owned two Audis in the past - considering that both my 200TQ and CQ had ridiculous failures while trying to get to work, multiple times, I can only imagine that an even more complex Audi is something to be terrified of. Especially in the summertime when none of the windows or sunroof will open because Audi "smartly" decided to run the ENTIRE window system to the driver's door...

  I have little to say about the W124, having never owned or driven one, but they seem to be fairly robust but with poor fuel economy. Handsome car, though!

  ~Desmond 1984 VW Jetta GLI STOLEN 9/11/09 :(

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  Feb. 7, 2011 11:51 p.m. friedgreencorrado SuperDork

  BMW 5-series. It seems that regardless of chassis, everyone from the bean counters to the engineers couldn't screw it up (although I admit, I'm among those who hate the skin Bangle designed for the E60). If you're looking for a newer one, the E39 gets my vote. Especially since all the electrical "luxury" junk that goes bad on those cars seems to go bad on every other car made by every other manufacturer when it's 5-10yrs old. I've only ever driven the V8, don't know what that car's like with a 6. I should also add that I've never owned one, just driven one that belonged to a friend of mine.

  How can it be a midlife crisis, when I've driven sportscars my entire life?

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  Feb. 8, 2011 12:01 a.m. mtn SuperDork

  Left field option: Infiniti M and Q's. RWD V8, whats not to like?

  Anytime somebody tells you that vodka mixes well with anything, slide them a jar of mayonnaise and tell them to practice what they preach.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 12:02 a.m. mtn SuperDork

  Oh, and if it were me, I'd be looking at W124 or E34. My dads E34 is the most solid car that I've ever driven, and he says that his old 300E was even better.

  Anytime somebody tells you that vodka mixes well with anything, slide them a jar of mayonnaise and tell them to practice what they preach.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 12:31 a.m. NickF40 Reader

  A 940 wagon.....with the rear section of the roof cut off to make a sedan with a hot tub in the back and an anarchy flag out the boot? No? For god sakes you can't get any more classier than that

  Sonic-Damn, if that trabby were within a 6 hour tow I'd go and get it for Lemons. We did pretty well with one East German car, so why not an East German car that is an even worse starting point for a

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  Feb. 8, 2011 12:45 a.m. friedgreencorrado SuperDork

  mtn wrote: Left field option: Infiniti M and Q's. RWD V8, whats not to like?

  From what I've seen, the price for a good one, and the same damn electrical failures of the stupid "luxury features" you'd find on a used 5-series BMW of the same vintage. Drive & compare their handling balance, and then think about which one would be the better reward for chasing all the shorts in their power cupholder/heated headliner/automatic headlight dimmer switch (hey, that one might really exist! ) circuits with your multimeter.

  How can it be a midlife crisis, when I've driven sportscars my entire life?

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  Feb. 8, 2011 6:12 a.m. dean1484 Dork

  BMW 740? Bigger than the 5. You seem to get more car than a 5 for the same or less cash. I think they are perceived as an old man car where as the 5 series is still considered a sports car. I drove a 740 the other week back and it is a great car.

  Respectfully, Dean

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  Feb. 8, 2011 6:39 a.m. 1988RedT2 HalfDork

  Late 70's Mercedes 450SEL 6.9. In it's day the world's fastest production sedan.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 6:44 a.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

  Lexus GS400? Not Euro I know but it too was the the fastest sedan in its day.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 7:08 a.m. wcelliot HalfDork

  I looked at a 400E at Carlisle a year or so ago, trying to figure out why it was $3900. 90k, perfectly clean, etc... had to drag myself away. Has to be the "best buy" of the last really high quality Mercedes model. Of course the 500E is more desirable, but at 3x, 4x the price?

  I like the idea of the 6.9 as well, but I suspect it's more complex than the 400E and not as nice of a driver. And I've not seen a decent one for $4000

  About the only similar car I would consider would be a BMW 540 and I've not seen many 6 speeds near that price range.... and if a model came with a manual I have to have it on principle! ;-)

  The A8 would be an awesome car to drive... not so sure about owning one. ;-)

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  Feb. 8, 2011 7:12 a.m. spitfirebill Dork

  Lexus LS 400. A coworker has had one for years and still loves it. Not the greatest gas mileage, but every time I ride in it, I come away impressed. Oddly, he bought it off ebay from someone in NYC, sight unseen.

  EDIT: Ooops. Not Euro sedan.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 7:36 a.m. 02Pilot Reader

  Hard to go wrong with an E34 or E39, provided you are reasonably diligent about finding a good one. Manual tourings are not the easiest things to come by, and only came in 528i/525i flavors; no manual 540i tourings at all.

  As far as E39s, I'd personally stay away from any of the BMW V8s at this point unless I had documented proof of timing chain guide rail and oil separator replacement (both require major engine disassembly, and they're getting to the age where they will need it done). I prefer the I6s anyway; they have their issues as well, but they're easier to work on and the steering is better.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 8:18 a.m. Travis_K Dork

  I have seen decent 6.9s cheap, but they get like 8 mpg. Dont get an A8, the transmissions are doing well if they go 100k, and its like $6500 for a decent (as in one that is actually strong enough to last a while) rebuilt one. Same with the XJR. The diesel benz sounds decent (im thinking about getting one too), and they are available cheap here. If you have a little more money what about a diesel w124? I have seen them for $3-5K here.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 8:50 a.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  I'm almost tempted by a 6.9 if it fit my budget despite the fuel consumption. All the W116 are fuel hogs to a certain extent, with the 350 and 6.9 being the worst offenders IIRC.

  For once, the availability of a manual trans is a secondary concern, Ann doesn't really 'do' manual and she needs to be able to drive the car as well, so a slushbox would be preferred.

  As I mentioned, no Lexi, sorry...

  I hear you guys re the A8, I think I got lucky in the sense that the autobox on the one I had was OK(ish) but it still gobbled up stupid money for comparatively silly little things.

  I guess so far it boils down to a BMW or a Mercedes, but either would mean that I'd have to keep the truck or buy a smaller 4x4 for part of the winter commuting. That's kind of the scenario I was trying to avoid (hence the idea with the Audi) but maybe a Tracker or Samurai would work for that and still get 25-30mpg.

  The 400E is really a bit of a dark horse in this race, I didn't realise they were that cheap and don't seem to be that hard to find either.

  BTW, the E39 528i has a reputation for Nikasil issues in the UK (meaning you get to buy a new block), is this an issue over here, too?

  Sanity is vastly overrated.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 9:02 a.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

  If you could find one, the '87 Mercedes 190D Turbo is a pretty cool IMHO. They are very rare though.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 9:04 a.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  They're also a little on the small side, that's why I've pretty much ignored that and the C-class during my search.

  TBH before I look at a 190 I'd try to dig up an E30 325ix.

  Sanity is vastly overrated.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 9:10 a.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

  I also like the 300D. But I have a soft spot for the Mercedes diesels. The OM603 is a pretty sweet engine. If I was to buy a Mercedes, it would have to be a turbodiesel or 6.9.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 9:16 a.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  I'd have to drive one (the older S-class diesels were not available outside the US) but they do appeal to the cheapskate in me. The main issue for me is if they're powerful enough for the mountains around here or not because I already find the truck's lack of oomph annoying. One of the downsides of having to go over a pass to get to work.

  Sanity is vastly overrated.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 9:19 a.m. 93EXCivic SuperDork

  That might be a problem. It could be easily solved but it would take a little work. Add a Holset HX35, a Myna injection pump and intercooler and it will have 250hp easy.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 9:56 a.m. paanta Reader

  BoxheadTim wrote: - BMW 5-series (probably late E34, *maybe* an E39 528i, preferably a touring). Again, I had a couple, I like them, Ann likes them and they're fairly cheap. Downsides, the same as the Mercedes as the 525ix was never imported into the US.

  With a LSD and snow tires, the E34 is great in the snow unless there's a LOT of it. Last weekend we got about 6 inches in maybe 2-3 hours and the freeways were the worst I've seen in a while. Only one vehicle passed my 535i in 2 hours of driving, and a few miles later we passed him buried in a snow bank. Requires that you use your brain when you're driving, but it's got a lot of weight over those rear wheels, a long wheelbase and great balance.
  

  Our W126 was great in the snow, too. Again, snow tires make all the difference.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 10:09 a.m. dculberson Reader

  Snow tires cure a lot of ills. My LS400 was completely unmanageable in deep snow - traction control on or off. Too big, tires too wide, but car not heavy enough to offset those factors. I put snow tires on - poof, problem solved. It helped that they're a bit narrower, too.

  So unless you're talking hardcore back country snow driving, don't worry about RWD only - just get two sets of wheels, one with summer tires, the other with winter tires.

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  Feb. 8, 2011 10:22 a.m. SlickDizzy SuperDork

  BoxheadTim wrote: BTW, the E39 528i has a reputation for Nikasil issues in the UK (meaning you get to buy a new block), is this an issue over here, too?

  America never got the Nikasil liners; they were all cast iron over here due to our crappy high-sulfur fuel.

  ~Desmond 1984 VW Jetta GLI STOLEN 9/11/09 :(

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  Feb. 8, 2011 10:41 a.m. benzbaron HalfDork

  The problem with the 69er is the horrid gas mileage and potential suspension problems. You can rebuild the hydraulic suspension but it sounds like much work. If I was going to buy one just find a clean euro model and be done with it. I think the euro model uses a higher compression engine than the us model.
  

  Another option if you keep your eyes open are the w116 300sd or the 280sel/280se with m110 engine. A euro m110 will give you 20mpg highway and in good tune produce around 180hp which is pretty good for a 30 year old car. Or you could also find a w123 280te mercedes estate, but I think they are euro import only.
  

  The other car I find interesting which you didn't mention is a Volvo T6 with a inline 6 turbo. They look very nice but I have no experience with them.

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