Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Engine Weights 1 2

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  Oct. 19, 2010 12:04 p.m. FlightService Reader

  Does anyone know of a website that lists engine weights?

  I am trying to find some but the Google thingy on the Internet machine isn't giving me what I want.

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  Oct. 19, 2010 12:08 p.m. kb58 Reader

  Yeah well... take whatever you find with a BIG grain of salt. The problem is that - almost always - they don't say what's included and what isn't. Those "300 lb V8" claims are BS. Anything short of a picture of it on a scale is itching for bad information.

  Kimini, and now a mid-engine Seven, www.midlana.com

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  Oct. 19, 2010 12:08 p.m. ArthurDent Reader

  Decent resource: http://www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4299

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  Oct. 19, 2010 12:22 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  Yeah, it's impossible to get realistic numbers unfortunately.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Oct. 19, 2010 12:29 p.m. FlightService Reader

  HA! I love it. 5th post goes to a GRM forum.

  Me: "Cops!" Them: "Where?" Me: "Nevermind"

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  Oct. 19, 2010 12:30 p.m. ArthurDent Reader

  There is a decent number of people who are members of both forums not too surprisingly I guess.

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  Oct. 19, 2010 12:31 p.m. FlightService Reader

  In reply to Keith:

  I keep reading stuff like

  "A chevy LS* engine is within 100 lbs of a Porsche 4 cylinder in a 944 Turbo." Things like that are just bugging me. Looking for some answers and trying to get ideas for a Challenge build.

  FYI: According to that sheet, VW engines must be made from Gold/Lead. Probably Gold given the weight and how much parts are.

  Me: "Cops!" Them: "Where?" Me: "Nevermind"

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  Oct. 19, 2010 1:03 p.m. Otto_Maddox Reader

  After reading that Locost thread, well, I wish I could scrub all the misinformation out of my head.

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  Oct. 19, 2010 1:03 p.m. Strike_Zero Reader

  Engine Weights Table

  Engine/Trans weights

  Try these. . .

  -=PJ=- "If not under warranty, live with it, or bend over and grab ankles."

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  Oct. 19, 2010 3:59 p.m. ScottRA21 Reader

  It's all this misinformation that causes confusion.

  I think a impartial, trusted, respected magazine should perhaps compile their own database on engine and transmission weights

  ....whistles and walks away innocently

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  Oct. 19, 2010 4:16 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  The problem is that most of these weights are taken by different people, in whatever configuration they have handy. For GRM to compile the database, they'd either have to have some control over the condition of the weighed engine or they'd have to do it themselves - and that's a lot to ask.

  Next time we have one running free, I'll get a weight for an LS3. How should I rig it?

  • with or without accessories?
  • with or without flex plate/flywheel?
  • with or without stock iron manifolds?

  The engine will have intake manifold, coils, plugs, throttle body and oil pan. I've got an LS1 in a similar getup right now too, come to think of it. Transmissions are easier as they have fewer removable parts, but I can get an F-body T56 weight around the same time.

  I'll see if I can get a Miata engine with the same collection of parts as well, although that might actually take longer!

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Oct. 19, 2010 5:12 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

  Keith wrote: Next time we have one running free, I'll get a weight for an LS3. How should I rig it?

  IMO, it's best to weigh the "removable" components and weigh the bare minimum with the individual component weights listed in the exact same place so that people can understand better. A picture of the bare engine is also awesome in case future questions arise like which intake, oil pan, etc. was on if there is some reason that's important. Example:

  Engine: RocketLSxHemi
  Bare weight (dry): 99 kilograms
  Additional parts not included in bare weight:
  1. AC Compressor - 2.3 kg
  2. Alternator (xxx amps/OEM part number?) - 2.4 kg
  3. Power steering pump - 1.1 kg
  4. Steel flywheel (application/OEM part number?) - 17 kg
  5. Cast iron manifolds (application/OEM part number?) - 5.7 kg total
  6. Miscellaneous accessory brackets, mounts, etc. (picture?) - 2.9 kg total
  

  This is my dream situation. This way, you have a pretty damn good idea of the minimum weight, and if you ditch components or replace them with lighter alternatives, you'll have a very good idea of where you stand.
  

  Bryce

  Portland, OR | '69 Bug | '05 Saabaru | '67 122S | '07 Sky Redline | $2009 AWD Fiero Hybrid | '72 N600

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  Oct. 19, 2010 5:27 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  I'll see what I can do. There are LS engines littering the shop right now. And thank you GM for casting the part number into everything, that's really helpful.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Oct. 19, 2010 6:56 p.m. JFX001 SuperDork

  Older version with the right idea, just wish that he would update it:

  http://gasalley.thetumbleweeds.net/tech_archive/general/engine_weights.htm

  Easy like Sunday Morning.

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  Oct. 19, 2010 8:15 p.m. Knurled HalfDork

  ScottRA21 wrote: It's all this misinformation that causes confusion. I think a impartial, trusted, respected magazine should perhaps compile their own database on engine and transmission weights ....*whistles and walks away innocently*

  Go to The Source:

  http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/library/txt/engfyi.htm

  Every engine weight has a footnote, indicating the source. Many of those sources are the author weighing the thing hisownself.

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  Oct. 19, 2010 8:46 p.m. FlightService Reader

  What have I started?

  Me: "Cops!" Them: "Where?" Me: "Nevermind"

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  Oct. 19, 2010 8:54 p.m. JFX001 SuperDork

  Knurled wrote:

  ScottRA21 wrote: It's all this misinformation that causes confusion. I think a impartial, trusted, respected magazine should perhaps compile their own database on engine and transmission weights ....*whistles and walks away innocently*

  Go to The Source:

  http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/library/txt/engfyi.htm

  Every engine weight has a footnote, indicating the source. Many of those sources are the author weighing the thing hisownself.

  deja vu....

  Easy like Sunday Morning.

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  Oct. 19, 2010 9:31 p.m. internetautomart SuperDork

  to me engine weights should be a long block only. No timing covers, no oil pan, no valve covers (pushrod covers accepted), no manifolds (intake or exhaust), no pulleys, no flywheel, no plugs, wires, coils or distributor. Just a bare long block. Camshafts, pushrods, timing chain/belt , gears are to be included.

  Now I'm working for myself

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  Oct. 19, 2010 9:48 p.m. Knurled HalfDork

  internetautomart wrote: to me engine weights should be a long block only. No timing covers, no oil pan, no valve covers (pushrod covers accepted), no manifolds (intake or exhaust), no pulleys, no flywheel, no plugs, wires, coils or distributor. Just a bare long block. Camshafts, pushrods, timing chain/belt , gears are to be included.

  Is that like the people who say that an FD has the entire engine behind the front axle centerline and a V8 doesn't therefore the V8 is bad... while ignoring the intercooler and oil cooler or two that the V8 won't require? (Sane V8s, anyway)

  Accessory weights really should be included. Engine's useless without them.

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  Oct. 19, 2010 10:17 p.m. ScottRA21 Reader

  Knurled wrote:

  internetautomart wrote: to me engine weights should be a long block only. No timing covers, no oil pan, no valve covers (pushrod covers accepted), no manifolds (intake or exhaust), no pulleys, no flywheel, no plugs, wires, coils or distributor. Just a bare long block. Camshafts, pushrods, timing chain/belt , gears are to be included.

  Is that like the people who say that an FD has the entire engine behind the front axle centerline and a V8 doesn't therefore the V8 is bad... while ignoring the intercooler and oil cooler or two that the V8 won't require? (Sane V8s, anyway)

  Accessory weights really should be included. Engine's useless without them.

  Agreed. Knowing the weight of the long block itself is interesting, but kind of worthless information in the end of things.

  And especially confusing is: Why no valve covers, oil pans, or timing cover? Unless the engine is a V8 from one of 3 manufacturers, pickings are slim for aftermarket parts. And lets face it, while people here (and many other places) will chant, "LS1 LS1!" for days on end anytime someone mentions a swap, for a lot of people, a V8 of any kind is just not what they are looking for.

  So the level playing ground is: Engine ready to run. All accessories, all wires. All intakes. It gives everyone a straightforward baseline to compare engines with.

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  Oct. 20, 2010 12:30 a.m. Keith SuperDork

  How do you install the timing belt without pulleys?

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  Oct. 20, 2010 12:46 a.m. mr2peak Reader

  I vote weight of a stock-configured running engine. ECU, wiring harness, intake to exhaust manifold. Everything you need to make it run minus a battery.

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  Oct. 20, 2010 7:23 a.m. RossD Dork

  with gas tank, too?

  The previous statements are not endorsed by Grassroots Motorsports or their sponsors.

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  Oct. 20, 2010 7:53 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

  My thinking here is... if you want to know how much an engine weighs then weigh the engine. Stuff specifically not part of the engine:

  • alternator
    
  • PS pump
    
  • air box & plumbing
    
  • external cooling
    
  • AC crap
    
  • clutch, pressure plate, flywheel
    

  If I want to know how much a power steering pump weighs... well, that is a different part and I'll put it on a scale. Its not part of the ENGINE.

  Lord of drivel and harbinger of Floundering

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  Oct. 20, 2010 9:36 a.m. Mikey52_1 HalfDork

  You COULD weigh the iron ore before it gets milled, but there's a lotta stuff needed to make it go zoom. I vote for ready-to run, minus A/C.

  Mike

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