Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Edify me in the ways of late-90's V-8 pickups 1 2

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  Nov. 10, 2011 9:08 p.m. RexSeven SuperDork

  I have decided to replace my N/A RX-7 with a pickup (or pickup-based SUV) for towing. It would also be used for winter driving (so I can stop exposing my Mazdaspeed3 and its future RWD replacement to the road salt), general around-the-house hauling, and as an emergency backup vehicle for the family. If I can find one with a plow for under my budget I might even use it for plowing, because I live on a short side street and the plows don't always get to it when we need them to. My criteria are as follows:

  -Has to be able to tow a turbo Mazda RX-7, open trailer, and extras like tools and extra set of wheels. 6,000lb max. sound about right?

  -Automatic

  -4x4

  -4 seater

  -6ft or shorter bed

  -$3500 or below

  -I can add bolt-on parts like transmission coolers myself if need be.

  I'm not buying one yet. I have to sell (or trade) the N/A RX-7 first. I've been looking mainly at Ford F-150s with the 4.6L V-8 and Dodge Ram 1500s with the 5.9L V-8. Most of the trucks I can find on local CL that at least appear to meet this criteria are late-90s or older. Will these old trucks stand up to the task? Is my budget reasonable or am I asking too much?

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  Nov. 10, 2011 9:38 p.m. Streetwiseguy Dork

  How impatient are you when towing? That has a very direct bearing on your powertrains lifespan.

  I tow an open 2 axle trailer with an IT2 Neon, 8 wheels and tires, tool box, airtank, spare axles, trans, etc with a 2000 4.8 Silverado. The nearest track is 600km from here, through some rolling hills. I generally stop twice, and can go door to track in 7 hours. Other than shifting a lot once I get to the rolling hills, or suffering if there is a typical western Canadian head wind, its fine.

  I used to do it with a 1991 318 Dakota that had 325,000 km when I sold it, and have also towed with my friends 98 F150 4.6.. The full size truck is a bit nicer from the weight/braking standpoint, but any of the three was perfectly adequate...until I borrowed a friends chipped diesel dualley.

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  Nov. 10, 2011 11:46 p.m. belteshazzar SuperDork

  i like the chevy better for it's suspension, motor, and fuel efficiency. i like the ford's rear axle and transmission the best. and in my opinion, a gas-powered dodge doesn't bring anything to the table besides being cheaper to purchase than comparable pickups.

  spending money I don't have to buy parts I don't need to impress people I don't know

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  Nov. 11, 2011 8:18 a.m. emodspitfire Reader

  Plowing is very tough on trucks. If that is a priority get a 3/4 ton truck with lotsa cubes.

  Rog

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  Nov. 11, 2011 8:37 a.m. Ranger50 Dork

  Having 4 seats is going to be tough for anything before 2000-ish. Extended cabs were mostly for show and extra storage space. Riding back there for any length of time will make whoever is back there wish they had brought their car instead.

  My personal pick would be a OBS OBD1 F150/250 with a 300 I-6.

  "Never trust an intelligent man with no money to play fair."

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  Nov. 11, 2011 8:40 a.m. tpwalsh New Reader

  The budget is definitely GRM reasonable, though it might take awhile to find the right one in that range.

  I've owned 2 150's in that range, a 99 and my current 97. The 97-98 4.6L motors are pretty anemic, about 215hp@~5500rpm and torque maxing out around 4500. The 5.4L has much more low end, max torque around 2500. Both motors were updated with the PI intake/heads to add about 20hp in 99. I can't compare apples to apples, but my 99 5.4L auto/3.55 was MUCH faster than my 97 4.6L 5sp/3.08.

  The 99+ came with 4 doors, which makes loading much easier, the 97-98 only a third door on the pass. side. The extended cabs in the fords are actually pretty good for piling people in, but I wouldn't subject anyone to the back seat for more than an hour or so. Just not quite enough legroom. If it had an extra 2" it would be perfect.

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  Nov. 11, 2011 8:52 a.m. MadScientistMatt SuperDork

  Ranger50 wrote: Having 4 seats is going to be tough for anything before 2000-ish. Extended cabs were mostly for show and extra storage space. Riding back there for any length of time will make whoever is back there wish they had brought their car instead. My personal pick would be a OBS OBD1 F150/250 with a 300 I-6.

  If you want a back seat, your best bet is probably an SUV.

  "Mad Scientist" Matt Cramer

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  Nov. 11, 2011 8:58 a.m. patgizz SuperDork

  don't look for anything but a GM with a 5.3/6.0, maybe a 4.8

  they don't spit spark plugs through the hood and the gen3 small blocks are a gift from god to us gearheads.

  When I grow up, I want to be just like Colt McCoy

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  Nov. 11, 2011 9:52 a.m. HiTempguy Dork

  Ford pickups before the 3 valve 5.4 were anemic, I never understood why they sold so well, and the transmissions were "ok". I wouldn't even look at a Dodge that wasn't built in the new millenium, the 318 and 360 were GARBAGE compared to the Ford offerings and their auto tranny was worse than the Ford's.

  The 96-99 GMC 1/2 ton is a SOLID pickup. The 4L60E is a good transmission, the vortec 5.7L is actually powerful, and they are relatively durable trucks. If you are a real stickler, you can look for a 3/4 ton crew cab chebby/GMC short box 4x4 with the 5.7L in it... it is rated to tow well over the 6000 pounds you want, but won't get near as good of gas mileage as the 1/2 ton. You'll also find the Vortec tows better than the newer 4.8L or 5.3L (and the transfer cases fail religiously at 100,000 miles due to GM using cheap E36 M3ty chinese bearings, so if it hasn't been replaced budget $1200 for a rebuilt one).

  However, the whole "seats" 4 thing complicates the matter. The only way you can comfortably seat 4 adults in any of these trucks is the 3/4 ton Chevy crew cab, or the 96+ (I believe) Ford F150 crew cab. Anything with suicide doors will NOT be large enough for full grown men. The extended cabs are perfectly fine for kids up to 14 year old teenagers.

  Rallying; It's like skydiving, except you have to dodge trees on your way down!

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  Nov. 11, 2011 10:00 a.m. berettaman New Reader

  For something with a bit of character, that is darn near indestructible and offers inexpensive parts when repair is required, take a look at a full size Jeep (1962-1991). Those would be the J10, J20, J4000, Cherokee, Wagoneer, Grand Wagoneer, and M715. Tough as nails, V8's that produced lots of torque & are easily upgraded, and unstoppable off-road in near stock configuration.

  You can find some really nice examples, some even with a plow already attached, in your price range.

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  Nov. 11, 2011 10:01 a.m. tpwalsh New Reader

  patgizz wrote: don't look for anything but a GM with a 5.3/6.0, maybe a 4.8 they don't spit spark plugs through the hood and the gen3 small blocks are a gift from god to us gearheads.

  The spitting spark plug issue is only the three valve motors, and if you can find one in that range I'll buy it for $500 over whatever you paid for it right now.

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  Nov. 11, 2011 10:18 a.m. Ranger50 Dork

  HiTempguy wrote: Ford pickups before the 3 valve 5.4 were anemic, I never understood why they sold so well, and the transmissions were "ok". I wouldn't even look at a Dodge that wasn't built in the new millenium, the 318 and 360 were GARBAGE compared to the Ford offerings and their auto tranny was worse than the Ford's.

  Agree if you are talking about engines after the body and chassis change.... Disagree on pre-97 models. 96-down > 97-ups. As for the Dodge... Again agree and disagree. If you want to compare 4.7 to 4.6, ok..both suck necrotic donkey balls. But PR motors.... Nothing wrong with a decently maintained Mopar. that includes transmissions.

  The 96-99 GMC 1/2 ton is a SOLID pickup. The 4L60E is a good transmission, the vortec 5.7L is actually powerful, and they are relatively durable trucks. If you are a real stickler, you can look for a 3/4 ton crew cab chebby/GMC short box 4x4 with the 5.7L in it... it is rated to tow well over the 6000 pounds you want, but won't get near as good of gas mileage as the 1/2 ton. You'll also find the Vortec tows better than the newer 4.8L or 5.3L (and the transfer cases fail religiously at 100,000 miles due to GM using cheap E36 M3ty chinese bearings, so if it hasn't been replaced budget $1200 for a rebuilt one).

  That is provided you can find one with front fenders, cab corners, rockers, bumpers, and beds still intact. I still didn't have any problems towing 8k+ pounds, just the trailer and vehicle on top, with a 5.3 and 4L60E through the mountains here in my wife's Avalanche. But of course I wasn't towing in OD at 80 either, it was 55-65 in Drive.

  However, the whole "seats" 4 thing complicates the matter. The only way you can comfortably seat 4 adults in any of these trucks is the 3/4 ton Chevy crew cab, or the 96+ (I believe) Ford F150 crew cab. Anything with suicide doors will NOT be large enough for full grown men. The extended cabs are perfectly fine for kids up to 14 year old teenagers.

  Or you can look for the rare OBS F250 crewcab. Although you will probably find a F350 before finding a 250.

  "Never trust an intelligent man with no money to play fair."

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  Nov. 11, 2011 10:20 a.m. Ranger50 Dork

  tpwalsh wrote: The spitting spark plug issue is only the three valve motors, and if you can find one in that range I'll buy it for $500 over whatever you paid for it right now.

  Agreed. Even if you have to pull the heads off to fix it. They are an easy fix. Cheap, too.

  "Never trust an intelligent man with no money to play fair."

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  Nov. 11, 2011 10:35 a.m. HiTempguy SuperDork

  Ranger50 wrote: That is provided you can find one with front fenders, cab corners, rockers, bumpers, and beds still intact. I still didn't have any problems towing 8k+ pounds, just the trailer and vehicle on top, with a 5.3 and 4L60E through the mountains here in my wife's Avalanche. But of course I wasn't towing in OD at 80 either, it was 55-65 in Drive.

  I can't really argue point for point against your other comments. In my experience, Ford motors are anemic, period. The 351 and 5.0L are jokes, and I've never had anything great to say about their transmissions. And they get HORRENDOUS mpg. The vehicle I've seen in the shop the most with tranny issues are the 90's Dodge pickups (who in their right mind would buy an "old" body style Dodge is beyond me, but I digress). We get rusty vehicles here, and typically the only rust that happens is none structural on the GM trucks of that era, specifically, the "lower rear quarter" of the cab. It's actually a really easy fix and they sell complete patch panels to replace it.

  In the end, if you don't mind slow, there is nothing wrong with a F-150 crew cab 4x4 in the new body style. It's just slow, and that gets old real quick if you have to tow through the mountains. I just used a 2004 quad cab 4x4 5.3L 1/2 ton chebby to tow 6500 pounds through WA, OR, MT, and ID and it was adequate (in a good way, I really can't complain). If you get one of the GM vehicles, you MUST get a tune for it if it has drive by wire, or they are the biggest pieces of garbage ever (only ever allow maximum torque in 2nd gear at 5000rpm while towing).

  Rallying; It's like skydiving, except you have to dodge trees on your way down!

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  Nov. 11, 2011 10:50 a.m. Streetwiseguy Dork

  tpwalsh wrote:

  patgizz wrote: don't look for anything but a GM with a 5.3/6.0, maybe a 4.8 they don't spit spark plugs through the hood and the gen3 small blocks are a gift from god to us gearheads.

  The spitting spark plug issue is only the three valve motors, and if you can find one in that range I'll buy it for $500 over whatever you paid for it right now.

  You have it backwards. The pre 3 valve engines spit plugs, the 3 valve motors never let go of them.

  Both are a common enough problem that every shop in North America has the tools to fix them.

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  Nov. 11, 2011 3:06 p.m. DaveEstey HalfDork

  I had a 93 F-350 diesel that would fit your requirements perfectly. I think it went to auction and sold for roughly that money too after my company decided it was getting too old (still ran great).

  I wasn't expecting longevity

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  Nov. 11, 2011 3:08 p.m. stealthfighter1 Reader

  chevy tahoe, obs or early nbs .... or early f250 even .

  my dad has the latter with a 5.4 ... i've towed plenty of cars , it's just great , and not too bad on gas.and they generally are easy to find in 4dr

  325i /02tl-s

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  Nov. 11, 2011 4:07 p.m. belteshazzar SuperDork

  Streetwiseguy wrote:

  tpwalsh wrote:

  patgizz wrote: don't look for anything but a GM with a 5.3/6.0, maybe a 4.8 they don't spit spark plugs through the hood and the gen3 small blocks are a gift from god to us gearheads.

  The spitting spark plug issue is only the three valve motors, and if you can find one in that range I'll buy it for $500 over whatever you paid for it right now.

  You have it backwards. The pre 3 valve engines spit plugs, the 3 valve motors never let go of them.

  Both are a common enough problem that every shop in North America has the tools to fix them.

  correct. and, no sarcasm, it is an inexpensive/easy repair.

  spending money I don't have to buy parts I don't need to impress people I don't know

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  Nov. 11, 2011 4:08 p.m. belteshazzar SuperDork

  you know, my 5.4 crown vic is comfortable to ride in. it also tows like a champ. plowing snow however.....

  spending money I don't have to buy parts I don't need to impress people I don't know

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  Nov. 11, 2011 5:03 p.m. RexSeven SuperDork

  The 4-seater and plow requirements aren't necessary, but they would be nice to have. The highways are mostly flat and I don't anticipate going up many mountains unless I take up hillclimb. Even then, the mountains in New England would be considered foothills if you live in the Rockies. Our town is hilly, however. Thanks for the suggestions.

  My forged wheels reduce unsprung weight/I don't know what's heavier, your rims or your date

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  Nov. 11, 2011 5:34 p.m. Grizz HalfDork

  I love the opinions on Dodges. They consistently keep more Dodge trucks on the cheap for me and my family to buy.

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  Nov. 11, 2011 7:05 p.m. Dusterbd13 Reader

  my daily work truck is an 89 (same body from 88-98) chevy extended cab long bed. sl origonally (bench seat, rubber floors, radio delete). after swapping in a set of suburban buckets and a radio, i started to daily it. i can fit 4 comfortably, 5 fairly comfotably. this is adults. longst traveled distance is 120 miles round trip, and the only complaint i had from the 3 rear seat passengers was that there was very little headroom. id honestly reccomend a 350 powered, 4x4, extended cab shortbed 3/4 ton one for your needs. the truck chassis and brakes pulls well. (mines a 6 cyl, 5 spd with 3.08 gears 1/2 ton 2wd. once i get my load actually moving, it tows really great.) if your 4 passengers requirement is wife and kids, this would be perfect.

  i can look down here for one where they wouldnt be too rusty, if youd like.

  hope that helps.

  Michael

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  Nov. 11, 2011 7:24 p.m. Dusterbd13 Reader

  http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/2696144328.html

  http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/2670809164.html

  http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/2667384663.html

  http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/2624569992.html

  just a quick search

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  Nov. 11, 2011 10:02 p.m. Vigo Dork

  the 318 and 360 were GARBAGE compared to the Ford offerings

  My head almost exploded. Thats a load of crap! lol. Try driving and working on the fords!

  I prefer the 4r70 to the a500/518.. I prefer the 4.2 to the 3.9 (not by a whole lot), but i VASTLY prefer the 5.2/5.9 to the 4.6/5.4.

  And the 4l60 being a good transmission.. wow. That takes the cake. Ask any transmission shop, and they will tell you that the failure rate on old 4l60s is MULTIPLES of the rate on the dodge and fords. The 4r70 is the best of that bunch imo. A 4l60 can be rebuilt to be reliable, but unless you're doing it yourself you're talking $1600+ to get to where the ford trans starts. The dodge is somewhere between the two.

  To the OP.. you need to figure out how much the quality of the interior matters to you. If it matters enough to outweigh the sheer mediocrity of the 4.6/5.4, go with the ford. Although, i would point out that every 4.2/5spd f150 ive driven has felt overall more powerful than every 4.6/auto f150 ive driven. I know you arent looking for 5spds, though.

  I really cant stand how the 4.6 does nothing well. I even drove a supercharged one @6psi that felt slower than some of the stock 5.2 dodges ive driven.

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  Nov. 12, 2011 10:10 a.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  sounds like you need a small REPU

  Be careful of your words, for someone will agree with them. Be careful of your conduct, for someone will imitate it. -Leih Tsu

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