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  June 2, 2011 12:57 p.m. procainestart Dork

  A friend is having severe tramlining issues with his 328 -- the car cannot be driven on the highway with one hand and he doesn't want his wife driving it.

  This started after fitting wider, stock 330 rims with Yoko. ES100s; the fronts are now 225, up from 205. Alignment is probably an "aggressive street" spec, maybe no toe or a little toe out, perhaps they yanked on the spindles for a little camber.

  I had ES100s some years back, and they sucked in ruts. My question, then, is this: to what extent does tramlining have to do with tire design? Can he solve this with new tires, or should he also re-set the toe to something more standard?

  Thanks...

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  June 2, 2011 1:01 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  sounds like he has some alignment issues.. or bad bushings that the wider tyres are aggravating.

  Be careful of your words, for someone will agree with them. Be careful of your conduct, for someone will imitate it. -Leih Tsu

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  June 2, 2011 1:03 p.m. Duke SuperDork

  He can probably solve it with new tires.

  On 225/45/17s, my E46 didn't have a tramlining issue until I got a couple degrees of negative camber dialed in up front. By then my older RE-01Rs were already getting pretty worn and noisy. But this spring I switched to DWs in the same size and 95% of the tramlining issues disappeared, without changing the alignment.

  I do agree that he should have a regularly scheduled alignment from a typical maintenance standpoint, just to be sure. But I really like the DWs, or the DWSs if he needs a 4-season tire.

  Junior Brown is my hero.

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  June 2, 2011 1:08 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

  Yanking on the spindles, LOL. I hope that was a joke but if they stuck some washers in behind the lower strut bolts... that works. 2mm = -1 deg.

  Toe in, too little caster, improper inflation, bad control arm bushings... tie rods... E36 M3ty tires, lots of variables. You have to do a little checking.

  Start by trying the original wheel/tires if available then look for play in anything. If there is some... fix it. Check the bushings... (eyeballs). If the rubber is torn, cracked or you can move the control arm too easily with a screwdriver... change them.

  I ran 245/40/17s on 8.5" wide rims with -3.2 camber and a good bit of toe out with no dry weather handling issues so something is amiss for certain.

  Lord of drivel and harbinger of Floundering

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  June 2, 2011 2:23 p.m. Soma007 Reader

  Get the alignment checked if he isn't 100% sure what it is.

  On my 328i I knocked the pins out of the strut hats to get a tiny bit more camber (-0.9 total) and that small change added enough toe out to make it very darty on the street until I had it realigned.

  Also you're right about the ES100's, I'd ditch them as well.

  Lastly check the front control arm bushings and they are a common wear item. Although mine were pretty shot and the car still didn't wander much.

  Jason

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  June 2, 2011 2:26 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  My Ti is running 235/45/17s all around on 7 inch wide rims with none of that darty/tramljning you are talking about. I only get it on roads that are DEEPLY rutted

  Be careful of your words, for someone will agree with them. Be careful of your conduct, for someone will imitate it. -Leih Tsu

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  June 2, 2011 6:46 p.m. iceracer Dork

  Wrong offset of the wheel can cause that. Camber can also be a cause.

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  June 2, 2011 7:00 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  wheels are from a 330? Offset should be ok

  Be careful of your words, for someone will agree with them. Be careful of your conduct, for someone will imitate it. -Leih Tsu

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  June 3, 2011 9:27 a.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

  [engineer]

  to the OP's question about tire design influencing tramlining, there is a definite relationship. i'd say the primary contributor is tire stiffness (both the sidewall and across the tread) and the secondary contributor is tread design.

  imagine a tire that is infinitely stiff, ie it does not deflect under load. for this tire, the contact patch is determined by the highest point of the road surface contacting the tire. on perfectly flat ground, the entire tread width will be on the ground and the center of the contact patch will be at the center of the tire width. but as this tire encounters a rut in the road, the instantaneous contact patch is at whichever edge of the tire is contacting the side of the rut, and the car will pull to that side.

  the driver's natural reaction is to steer away from the pull, ie if it pulls left s/he steers right.

  the problem is exacerbated by wider tires, because both sidewalls are closer to the edges of the rut. closer to the edges means less time between when the rut-induced steering pull changes directions.
  

  now there's no such thing as an infinitely stiff tire, so there will always be some deflection of the tire over the irregularities of the road surface, and the contact patch migration (movement) will be less severe than the imaginary example above.

  [/engineer]

  if you're gonna be a bear.... be a grizzly bear!

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  June 3, 2011 9:52 a.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  less severe than the example above.. but it perfectly demonstrates what happens to cars with really wide rubber

  Be careful of your words, for someone will agree with them. Be careful of your conduct, for someone will imitate it. -Leih Tsu

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  June 3, 2011 10:12 a.m. carguy123 SuperDork

  Your answer is as simple as this: "Alignment is probably an "aggressive street" spec, maybe no toe or a little toe out,"

  Toe out is your culprit.

  If no toe out then you have worn bushes which allows the wheels to toe out slightly under pressure.

  "mobilito ergo sum" I drive therefore I am!

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  June 3, 2011 12:46 p.m. amg_rx7 HalfDork

  I'd probably say alignment as well. My e36 started doing that after a dealer alignment once. I discovered that they screwed up the toe setting a few thousand miles later when the inside of my tires wore to the cords. shiny happy person dealers....

  control arm bushings will contribute to that situation as well.

  definitely do not want toe-out for a primarily street driven car. Even zero toe on front wheels causes the car to tramline a bit. A little toe-in is a good setup for most street oriented cars.

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  June 3, 2011 1:36 p.m. dj06482 Reader

  I had a set of 225/55/16 Yokohama AVS ES100s on my '92 notchback Mustang, and they were unbelievably stiff. I had a set of Traction T/As on Turbines, and the ride was infinitely better, and the grip really didn't suffer at all. Both tires were run at the same PSI.

  '97 328is | '05 Odyssey | '06 RAV4 | '06 Dodge RAM 1500 QC

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