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  Nov. 29, 2010 11:42 a.m. OhhShift New Reader

  First off, you guys are great. I love GRM forum for all the great info/knowledge and fast responses. I posted recently about thoughts on RX8 as a daily driver/track toy and got lots of info to ponder. My thoughts have drifted to M3.

  To recap, I need a bit more adrenaline in my dd and something I can have some fun with at track days next summer (MidAmerica Motorplex, IA). The Dodge Stratus isn't cutting it anymore (not that it ever did) and I have received permission from the spousal unit. I have done track days and LeMons racing over the past couple years so I am at least familiar with playing racey car driver.

  My questions regarding the E46 M3 and my potential acquisition of such car.....

  1. Why not?

  2. What year? any gremlins haunt a particular year, which years to avoid? which year to get?

  3. Major maintenance concerns I should look to have been done already? What goes wrong with these cars?

  4. What am I missing?

  Thank-you in advance.

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  Nov. 29, 2010 11:52 a.m. DukeOfUndersteer SuperDork

  all i have to say is get a manual. IMO - Manual>SMG

  We are flashin trannys... wait that came out wrong

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  Nov. 29, 2010 11:54 a.m. nderwater HalfDork

  In a nutshell, the E46 M3 is a very fast, very capable car burdened with complicated electronics, expensive consumables and sky-high insurance premiums. I'd buy one, but I'm friends with a couple of BMW mechanics.

  Edit - like the Duke said, skip the SMG gearbox and save yourself a world of maintenance anguish.

  Auto photo blog: http://motomania.tumblr.com

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  Nov. 29, 2010 12:11 p.m. Lugnut HalfDork

  I had an '02 SMG M3. It still ranks as one of my top 3 cars ever. I would not have bought it if the SMG wasn't an option. Quite simply, the SMG is amazing, mind-blowing, life-changing... especially if you are tracking the car.

  It lets you worry about driving instead of worrying about missing shifts. It shifts WAY faster than humans are capable of shifting. On the street it was fantastic - all of the convenience of an auto with zero fun-sapping automaticness. On the track, it was sublime. I cannot say enough how wonderful my SMG experience was.

  The actual transmission is identical to the regular 6 speed. There is some extra software and hydraulics for the shifter mechanism and that's all for added complexity.

  The S54 naysayers can suck it. I had all of the rod bearing service actions done on my car and the bearings came out looking brand new every time. In one case, I broke in my new rod bearings on the way to Road America for a four day DE.

  I devoured front brakes like they were going out of style. It isn't hard to get those rotors glowing. Turner sells ducting kits, and I highly, highly recommend getting it - it'll seriously prolong the life of your front pads.

  My only mods were an intake and exhaust - I got in a group buy on some forum (I don't remember which) and the discount was just too good to pass up for a nice AFE intake and Borla exhaust. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have bought either, but together they worked in perfect harmony. Then I rode on Michelin Pilot Sport Cups all summer. Those were my only modifications. That car was easy to drive fast like lightning.

  Some of my better times: Blackhawk Farms: 1:19 Gingerman Raceway: 1:32 Road America: 2:41

  I am a King Prawn.

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  Nov. 29, 2010 12:13 p.m. Lugnut HalfDork

  Ah, found a picture. Coming in to turn 1 at Gingerman.

  

  I am a King Prawn.

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  Nov. 29, 2010 4:43 p.m. racerdave600 HalfDork

  No direct experience, but a friend that's a profession driver spent some time with a BMW team while they were transitioning from the E36 to the E46. It had a few electronic issues that may or may not have been sorted in later models. Basically it would go into limp mode if you came on and off the throttle too fast. It didn't happen to all the drivers, only the faster aggressive guys. They would have to pull a fuse during the race to reset it. I believe the factory team finally came up with a software patch to fix it, but not sure if production cars also had it.

  Other issues were frequent blow motors, transmissions that barely lasted a race, and I believe hub issues. Granted this was a race car, but it was only Motorola Cup. Eventually they were sorted out, but it took a lot of time and expense. They were not the mostly trouble free cars the E36 versions were, and seemed to be more street car than race car.

  However, they were faster and ended up as a pretty good car.

  I was actually looking for one when I bought my current car. They make an awesome daily driver!

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  Nov. 29, 2010 8:56 p.m. nderwater HalfDork

  Lugnut - if you loved the SMG, you will be blown out of the water by the seven-speed DSG in the current M3.

  Auto photo blog: http://motomania.tumblr.com

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  Nov. 29, 2010 9:24 p.m. dsycks New Reader

  Before you take the leap...

  Please consider wrecking your M3 at a track day.

  This fear added to the cost of keeping up my Evo got me to give it up and go less spendy on a toy. As such I bought a E36 and am building it up to be my fun/track car.

  I like it so much however that I am strongly considering an E46 as a dd however!

  Best of luck!

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  Nov. 30, 2010 12:44 a.m. 7pilot New Reader

  Considering that you need SWMBOs permission to buy the car, there may be another point you have to consider, "Her Indoors". The car is heavy with a few proprietary systems. The car is heavy so it goes through consumables like tyres and brakes. that's $$. if you are not a DIY, that's more$$.

  You'll be having to Beg My Wife pretty often.

  Perhaps a late E36M...still heavy from my POV, but easier to lighten and cheaper to buy /maintain would be suitable.

  m

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  Nov. 30, 2010 1:47 a.m. 1967cutlass New Reader

  An e36 m3 is a more reasonable choice IMO but it's not as nice of a car.

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  Nov. 30, 2010 9:46 a.m. docwyte Reader

  Had both an E36 and E46 M3. The E46 M3 is a great everyday car that can still kick butt on the track.

  Contrary to the naysayers here, I never had any electronic issues with the car, nor did I have brake problems or any other problems. Parts cost aren't Chevy prices, what a surprise!

  Stay AWAY from the SMG. It's clunky on the street and prone to failure.

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  Nov. 30, 2010 10:03 a.m. Buckhead Reader

  -great car! no to the smg unless you still had a factory warranty. I have had mine since 07 and the only problems i have encountered were:

  -rear view mirror got an air bubble in the fluid. pricey fix. Got BMW to knock off 50%. -clutch went out at 50k. so i replaced the flywheel as well and removed the CDV - which i highly recommend doing unless you plan on teaching your gf or wife how to drive a standard. -during the gas crisis of 08 (if your from atlanta you would know what i am referencing) i kept running out of fuel so i destroyed my fuel pump. - door actuator on the driver side decided to stop working easy fix only 249. for the actuator.

  the catalytic converters can be pricey when they go and there are two of them. also brakes parts aren't cheap.

  I say go for it!!!

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  Nov. 30, 2010 10:05 a.m. Buckhead Reader

  ps they also have a 100,000 mile guarantee on the engines

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  Nov. 30, 2010 10:15 a.m. Buckhead Reader

  racerdave600 wrote: Basically it would go into limp mode if you came on and off the throttle too fast. It didn't happen to all the drivers, only the faster aggressive guys. They would have to pull a fuse during the race to reset it. I believe the factory team finally came up with a software patch to fix it, but not sure if production cars also had it.

  If i am driving hard(high rpms). normally on the hwy..... and i push in my clutch either for a delayed shift or getting on the off ramp my car basically cuts off rpms drop etc. is this the limp mode you're talking about?? if so i need a fix for this. however, its very infrequent but annoying to lose idle.

  How do i fix this problem? it actually started after i installed an aftermarket intake.

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  Nov. 30, 2010 10:34 a.m. Xceler8x SuperDork

  I know times are tight and all....

  ...but I would seriously reconsider tracking your DD.

  If you wad it up how're you getting to work the next day?

  If you wreck the trans how're you getting it home and then to work the next day?

  Tracking a DD is imho a bad idea.

  Spend $2k - 3k on a Miata. Low consumables. Durable. Leave the hairy chested V8's and Euro cars to the guys with money who obsessively compare penis sizes in the pits. (In Foghorn Leghorn voice "It's a joke son! Laugh when I say that!") Then zoom all day long on peanuts while driving home in a reliable car that you haven't abused. Better yet, rent a car for a trackday. All the fun, no worries. Also, if you destroy that Miata trying to banzai pass that jackass Corvette in turn 3...throw a match at the thing and walk away all slow motion like Jason Statham when it explodes. Would you do that to an E46 M3?
  

  My experiences:

  Drive track car to the track - destroy rad hose. Jury rig it for the 3.5 hr ride home. Nurse ride all the way home. No fun.

  Trailer car to the track - rent car trailer from uhaul. drive to track in August in non-AC truck. race all day, load up, go home. Fun. Sweaty.

  Rent a ride at Lemons - drive myself to the track in complete comfort. Leave car maintenance and prep to owners of the track car. Car breaks. Call it a day and crack a beer while they fix it. Next day? Get in the car and drive. Drive home in complete comfort knowing the car is broken again and not my problem to fix tomorrow. GLORIOUS FUN.

  Do what you have to but after tracking cars at HPDE's for about 3 years...this is the best info I can give you.

  You are what you do, when it counts.

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  Nov. 30, 2010 12:38 p.m. OhhShift New Reader

  I appreciate the info. I am on the fence.

  I do drive LeMons races twice a year (hopefully 3 or 4 in 2011) as an arrive and drive type arrangement and have an absolute blast with it. Love it!! Only thing is it leaves months of emptiness between the events for me, and thus a big void in my life. Hence my desire to find something fun to play with throughout the good weather months here.
  

  As far as losing a dd to a track incident, this would be a third vehicle (to replace my dd Stratus, also have a '98 Dodge 2500 V10, and wife's Armada) so losing it to a track event in itself would not keep me from getting anywhere the next day. The one thing keeping me from just getting a cheap track only car is that would be a 4th vehicle at home and don't really have the space (Think cookie cutter house in cookie cutter neighborhood with a intsy bitsy two car garage which holds exactly 2 workbenches, two cabinets and one car, barely) I've already poured a slab beside the garage for the truck and car sits in driveway. Haa, I think our neighbor's already think we're a little on the white refuse side of things.

  As far as the wife's permission, she's pretty much ok with whatever I bring up (have got the ski boat and camper in the last two years after tactful presentations), but one more additional car instead of replacing one we have could be the straw. Don't really need the "permission" but I've found after 6 years of marriage, that if you don't get them on board before a big purchase, you will be reminded FOREVER of that stupid waste of money you spent every time you leave the toothpaste out.

  One additional concern with above mentioned car is the cost with consumables. The wife has a hard time understanding that after you buy a car for $X there are ongoing expenses, more with track duty, so that could be a delicate issue. Need the truck for the camper (too heavy for Armada) and it makes a lousy dd due to gas expenses. I have thought considerably about E36 M3, however, here in Iowa rust is a significant issue with most cars of that generation.

  What to do, what to do???

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  Nov. 30, 2010 12:52 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

  Well... here is my .02:

  I would never intentionally choose a 3400lb car as a track car UNLESS it was also a superb street car and I NEEDED to drive to the track. If I had to choose one because of those reasons there is no better modern car to do so with than an E46 M3. It holds tools, tires, beer and camping supplies and with just suspension mods and good race tires it will really haul ass.
  

  If I did not have the restriction that it must be a good street car - I'd buy a small, very light car that was barely streetable, a cheap open trailer and a hitch for the Dodge. If you don't HAVE to drive to the track then you can put your E36 M3 in the truck and not carry the compromise of a large sedan around with you on every single lap.

  Old 911, Lotus 7 clone, Elise, MR-2, Miata, whatever... pick your poison. They all eat less and will be as much or more fun than 3400lbs when braking and turning. All you need is a 16' open trailer to change your whole problem for the better.

  Lord of drivel and harbinger of Floundering

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  Nov. 30, 2010 3:03 p.m. racerdave600 HalfDork

  Buckhead wrote:

  racerdave600 wrote: Basically it would go into limp mode if you came on and off the throttle too fast. It didn't happen to all the drivers, only the faster aggressive guys. They would have to pull a fuse during the race to reset it. I believe the factory team finally came up with a software patch to fix it, but not sure if production cars also had it.

  If i am driving hard(high rpms). normally on the hwy..... and i push in my clutch either for a delayed shift or getting on the off ramp my car basically cuts off rpms drop etc. is this the limp mode you're talking about?? if so i need a fix for this. however, its very infrequent but annoying to lose idle.

  How do i fix this problem? it actually started after i installed an aftermarket intake.

  No, basically it's a low rev, low hp setting that's designed to get you home should there be a problem. It will not reset unless you reset it, like rebooting a computer, which is basically what you are doing. Basically the car thinks there is a problem and shuts everything down.

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  Nov. 30, 2010 3:15 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

  Buckhead wrote: If i am driving hard(high rpms). normally on the hwy..... and i push in my clutch either for a delayed shift or getting on the off ramp my car basically cuts off rpms drop etc. is this the limp mode you're talking about?? if so i need a fix for this. however, its very infrequent but annoying to lose idle.

  I'm not sure I follow - you say if you press the clutch in for a delayed shift the RPMs drop but unless you blip the throttle that is what normally happens so I assume you mean there is some kind of stumble or something. Can you give a better description?

  Lord of drivel and harbinger of Floundering

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