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  April 27, 2011 2:07 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  No, not trying to start a Bimmerforums thread .

  Pretty much every buyers guide warns about the broken rear subframe mount (well, where the mounts break/pull through the sheet metal) but I'm wondering how common an occurrence they are. According to a couple of threads on the above forum and another one, the world as we know it will come to an end if you auto-X or track a non-M E36 and haven't got the reinforced mounting plates that the M3 already has.

  Given the cost of having those fitted, the price difference between an OK 328is and a ratty-ish M3 more or less disappears so I'm wondering if they're so common that considering an M instead of an E36 is would be a good idea.

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  April 27, 2011 2:18 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

  I spend quite a lot of time at the track with the BMW club. In the last 10yrs I've seen a few that needed some repair. They were caused by driving hard with bushings that were already worn to the point of excessive play. It is certainly worth looking for before buying a car - but it's pretty rare on a street driver that has had proper service on the bushings.

  The fix... it's the same work to get in there to repair as it is to fix preventatively so if the car you get is fine - keep driving. It is a fearsome thing only to the kind of people who pay someone else. For anyone who has ever welded sheet steel... its dropping a subframe and welding in some patch panels.

  So... summary... it is an issue. It is not a pandemic. It is not the end of the world to fix but there are a lot of E36s out there. Buy one in good shape and reinforce it at your leasure or wait until it breaks (if the bushings are good it probably never will).

  Lord of drivel and harbinger of Floundering

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  April 27, 2011 2:25 p.m. Soma007 Reader

  E46's have a similar problem with the rear subframe mounts tearing. I'm not saying it never happens but according to the Internet mine should have fallen out and killed a van full of orphans a long time ago (its at 153k now).

  After a fair amount of autocross runs and three track days its still fine. But I don't drive like an idiot on the street so that probably evens things out a bit. I say if its lasted this long without failing and you don't go dumping the clutch at every stoplight it'll be fine.

  Jason

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  April 27, 2011 2:39 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

  In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

  Well, I haven't welded in about 15 years so I guess I'd better practice on something slightly less critical... That said, the reinforcements didn't exactly look that hard to weld in.

  Sanity is vastly overrated.

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  April 27, 2011 5:05 p.m. SupraWes Dork

  Gas tank has to come out which is a major PITA because of all the vent hoses and it goes up over the driveshaft, dual pickups, dual senders. Effing stupid design IMHO. Yeah I could fill a novel with 4 letter words about the e36 fuel system.
  

  I have heard that all cars 96< got the reinforcements.

  My front passenger mount was really bad and I actually had to do some rebuilding of surrounding sheet metal before I could even weld in the reinforcements. I should have replaced the whole piece of subfloor that the mounts attach to but didnt know you could buy that piece at the time. Will probably have to go back and put one in in the future if I keep this body. Suppposedly this new subfloor part is much heavier that the stock part that cracks. 92 4d 325i 254K

  

  Because Toyota hasn't made anything interesting since 1989

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  April 27, 2011 5:27 p.m. Joshua Reader

  They can even fail on the "reinforced" M cars. I know a guy with a '95 LTW and his has the extra reinforcement plates welded in, it's a good idea if you plan on tracking the car. His haven't failed but he sees enough that do.

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  April 28, 2011 7:18 a.m. Soma007 Reader

  I saw on one of the BMW forums that someone used some high strength industrial adhesive rather than welding. If its not already too far gone that might be a good option. No heat so you can leave the fuel tank in place, and fewer chances for rust if you live somewhere that might be a problem.

  Jason

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  April 28, 2011 8:13 a.m. ansonivan Dork

  I've seen two subframe mount stud failures come through the shop, I see several hundred e36's per year.

  Backing up what GPS said, yes it's a problem, no it's not the apocalyptic nun-killer.

  Rear trailing arm mount pockets are also likely to tear as a result of hard driving on worn bushings, they're significantly easier to reinforce.

  The welding work on both areas can be done with the fuel tank in place, I chose to do it this way and used a slab of sheet metal as a heat shield.

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  April 28, 2011 9:28 a.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

  ansonivan wrote: Backing up what GPS said, yes it's a problem, no it's not the apocalyptic nun-killer.

  well then, what are we going to use to kill the apocalyptic nuns?

  if you're gonna be a bear.... be a grizzly bear!

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  April 28, 2011 10:10 a.m. Strizzo SuperDork

  BoxheadTim wrote: In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker: Well, I haven't welded in about 15 years so I guess I'd better practice on something slightly less critical... That said, the reinforcements didn't exactly look that hard to weld in.

  buddy of mine from college had his brothers E36 for a while that had this problem. a shop quoted him something around a grand to fix the problem, he was what i would call an amateur welder, and he stuck it back together and it give him another problem as far as i know

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  April 28, 2011 10:38 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

  Joshua wrote: They can even fail on the "reinforced" M cars. I know a guy with a '95 LTW and his has the extra reinforcement plates welded in, it's a good idea if you plan on tracking the car. His haven't failed but he sees enough that do.

  They can fail on any car that was beat on with bad subframe mounts. If you keep them fresh - you won't likely have an issue regardless of reinforcement. It is the excessive movement that causes the fatigue. If the subframe stays where it is supposed to the stress on the area is properly spread out.

  Lord of drivel and harbinger of Floundering

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  April 28, 2011 10:39 a.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

  AngryCorvair wrote:

  ansonivan wrote: Backing up what GPS said, yes it's a problem, no it's not the apocalyptic nun-killer.

  well then, what are we going to use to kill the apocalyptic nuns?

  Ball-peen hammers. $2.99 at Harbor Freight.

  Lord of drivel and harbinger of Floundering

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