Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » E36 M3 vs E46 ZHP 1 2

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  Feb. 11, 2010 12:42 p.m. rogerbvonceg New Reader

  This is not a "what car" thread. No, really. The question is "which car would you rather have, and why?"
  

  These two cars can be similar in price. They seem similar in a lot of ways. Yes, the E36 is older, but "cream puff" examples are out there. Let's say it's a '98 M3 Sedan with low miles, documented history, and bone stock.
  

  In case you don't know, the E46 330i was offered with the "ZHP" performance package from 2003-2005. The package kicked it up a notch over the "sport package" with more aggressive engine tweaks and suspension. For the price to be similar to the older car, let's say it's an '03 with daily driver miles, but still good docs and well taken care of. Since the E46 M3 only came in two-door form, this is as good as it gets for a four-door, factory-tuned E46.

  So, imagine. Which one would you rather have in your stable (assuming it could only be one), and why?

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  Feb. 11, 2010 12:46 p.m. Soma007 New Reader

  Does the lack of limited slip in the ZHP bother you? If yes then E36M3

  Does an interior designed in the late 80's made of slightly questionable materials bother you? If yes, then go ZHP

  Do you like replacing power window regulators? Then go for a 4dr ZHP

  Do you like replacing the entire cooling system? Then either will work :)

  Jason

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  Feb. 11, 2010 1:13 p.m. ZOO Dork

  Good question -- have you drivent both? That could help inform your answer.

  I've been pleasantly surprised at how inexpensive E36 M3 maintenance parts are, even up here in Canada. I don't know what the E46 parts are like.

  1990 Miata, 1992 Corvette, 1998 M3

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  Feb. 11, 2010 1:37 p.m. motomoron Reader

  Daily driver = e46 330 or M3. Track day nut-job car = built e36.

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  Feb. 11, 2010 1:48 p.m. rogerbvonceg New Reader

  Thanks for the responses, but remember to keep it about you.

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  Feb. 11, 2010 2:20 p.m. ZOO Dork

  rogerbvonceg wrote: Thanks for the responses, but remember to keep it about you.

  Oops -- I misread the post.

  E36 M3, without a doubt. The lack of an LSD is a real downer with the E46. Plus you don't get the cool M badge. The E46 is subtle, though, which has that going for it.

  1990 Miata, 1992 Corvette, 1998 M3

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  Feb. 11, 2010 2:33 p.m. Ian F Dork

  E36 M3. Because "BTDT" and I already know how to work on one. Of course, I'm not sure my opinion really counts since I'd only be interested in a 4-dr version to graft on the back end of a Euro-market touring to create an M3 wagon...

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  Feb. 11, 2010 2:33 p.m. Greg Voth Reader

  Soma007 wrote: Does the lack of limited slip in the ZHP bother you? If yes then E36M3 Does an interior designed in the late 80's made of slightly questionable materials bother you? If yes, then go ZHP Do you like replacing power window regulators? Then go for a 4dr ZHP Do you like replacing the entire cooling system? Then either will work :)

  The interior materials didn't get a whole lot better.
  

  After replacing three window regulators in my brothers E46 I would say they have the same problem as well.

  Still want a E46 M3 Sedan...

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  Feb. 11, 2010 2:40 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

  If its a street car or dual purpose car you drive to the track I'd go for the ZHP and swap a quaiffe LSD in. The E46 is a much more solid car & nicer to be inside of. The parts cost the same (E46 is slightly easier to work on though once you remove all the pretty plastic trim).

  If its a 100% track car then any E36 with an S52 swapped in. Most of the ///M stuff ends up on ebay anyway so there is really no point in paying the premium to gut it.

  walterj, playing with the 'preferred username' feature

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  Feb. 12, 2010 7:23 a.m. pigeon HalfDork

  The E46. My '99 328i on street tires would regularly outrun the street tire E36 M3s at autocrosses. The 330ZHP can only be better, and it's a much better daily driver than the E36M3 - and yes i've driven the M3.

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  Feb. 12, 2010 8:02 a.m. njansenv Reader

  ^I'm not sure that that one data point proves the 328i is a faster car.

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  Feb. 12, 2010 8:39 a.m. Soma007 New Reader

  In reply to Greg Voth:

  Considering you just bought a 25yr old Volvo I'd take your input with a big grain of salt :)

  We're just going to have to agree to disagree on the interior materials. I've replaced all four of my window regulators and I still think the E46 interior is still nicer by far.

  Jason

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  Feb. 12, 2010 8:44 a.m. John Brown SuperDork

  I would take the e46 330 ZHP over the M3 for only one reason. I like the looks of the e46 more.

  Internationally known as The Brown Stig

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  Feb. 12, 2010 9:01 a.m. Joe Gearin Associate Publisher

  I'll be able to tell you very soon, as I have a E36 M3 and my brother is buying a 330 ZHP today!

  I'd agree that the 330 has a much nicer interior in both design and materials used. It seems all BMWs have some trim items that become unfastened/ unglued over time, but it isn't a big deal. I've heard window regulators go bad more often with the E46 cars. I've never had a problem with the windows on my E36. Judging from the E46 cars I've driven, the E36 M3 feels much more nimble, and a little more raw. The 330 is quieter, more luxurious, and just more modern. The E46 is a bit heavier, or at least feels heavier.

  At this point, with the newest E36 cars being over 10 years old, I'd go with a 330 for DD and an E36 for a track toy/ multipurpose car.
  

  just my .02

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  Feb. 12, 2010 10:54 a.m. speedblind Reader

  Great question, discussion. I owned an 04 ZHP for a little over a year. To this day it's the best balanced car in terms of doing everything well I've ever owned. Want to do a track day? No problem. Date night? Ideal car. Need to drive across the country in 6 days? Easy. The drivetrain is silky smooth, the handling is great for a street car and they look good. It does everything very well. Which is why I wouldn't buy another.

  My choice would be the E36 M3 (and in fact it will at some point). I've driven both, and the E36 leans further in the direction I do: less refinement, more connection to the road. It also does one thing very well (track days) and everything else pretty good. What you give up in interior materials, refinement and ultimately smoothness you get back in that it's a more focused driving car. Now, the E36 M3 is still a refined car that rides well and carries the junk you need it to - it's just that it's built with a bit more bias toward performance. It's not a mass market car - it's tuned for a very specific segment of the population.
  

  The ZHP walks that line very well, as it's about as aggressive as you can get in a street car that "everybody" will enjoy...in fact it probably appeals to a much wider range of people because of that.
  

  Couple pics of my ZHP:

  
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  Feb. 12, 2010 10:56 a.m. speedblind Reader

  I have to admit, these pics bring back memories. I do miss that car. I guess the bottom line is that you'll be happy with whatever you get - both are excellent choices.

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  Feb. 12, 2010 11:03 a.m. racerdave600 Reader

  I agree with Joe. For a daily, the E46 is a nicer drive, but it's not as nimble as the E36. The fact that there's not a ton a difference in price these days (assuming a really nice E36), it makes the decision that much harder.

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  Feb. 12, 2010 11:18 a.m. dyintorace Dork

  speedblind wrote: Couple pics of my ZHP:

  Wow...that's a pretty ZHP. I love them in Imola and those rims look great! I also really like the non-leather interior offered in that car, unlike most folks.

  Gainesville, FL

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  Feb. 12, 2010 11:20 a.m. dyintorace Dork

  I owned two different e36 M3's and now DD an e46 325i. Of course the latter is not a ZHP, but the same platform.

  I really enjoy the e46 platform as a DD. The main thing I miss from the e36 M3 is the absolutely instantaneous throttle response. That made those cars so much fun, whether on the street or track.

  Gainesville, FL

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  Feb. 12, 2010 11:27 a.m. angusmf New Reader

  I would stick with my e36 328. The extra money for the M3 is not worth it, and every time I see one drive by I think "Prick." But if I had to choose, I would go with creampuff e36 M3 four door. In general, I will take an older car unless the newer one is significantly better.

  But don't listen to me. I've never driven an e46 and only drove an M3 one time.

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  Feb. 12, 2010 11:35 a.m. Tom_Spangler Reader

  I also owned a ZHP for about a year and have driven a couple of E36 M3s. I'll echo what everyone else is saying. The performance is really quite similar, the E46 is more refined, the E36 is a bit more raw and hard-edged.

  For a DD that's going to see occasional track or autocross use, it's pretty hard to beat a ZHP. It's a modern, practical nice-looking, refined car that gets 25+ mpg, but it can also run mid-14s in the quarter and handles better than any car I have ever owned. The steering in mine was just telepathic.

  One other thing to keep in mind is one of the reasons I got rid of mine, though. It's a fairly complicated car, and parts aren't cheap. The VANOS units are known to be troublesome. I was running out of CPO warranty on mine and was deathly afraid of owning it out of warranty. My understanding is that E36 parts area easier and cheaper to find, and of course the car itself is less complex. In short, I think I'd rather own an E36 with 100k on it than an E46 with 100k on it.

  Lately I've been more attracted to simple cars, which is why I own an OBD-1 Miata and why I don't have any German cars at the moment.

  95 Miata - 07 F-150 - 08 Taurus X

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  Feb. 12, 2010 11:40 a.m. ZOO Dork

  angusmf wrote: The extra money for the M3 is not worth it, and every time I see one drive by I think "Prick."

  Glad to see you are so open-minded Of course, maybe I do resemble that remark.

  1990 Miata, 1992 Corvette, 1998 M3

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  Feb. 12, 2010 11:43 a.m. pigeon HalfDork

  I bought my E46 328i with 99,968 miles on it from a guy who didn't want to own it after the CPO warranty expired - it ran out as I drove it home. I owned it for something like 58k miles and had minimal problems. The VANOS was a little noisy but worked - frequent oil changes helped. The oil separator was in need of changing when I sold it. A few other minor parts let go along the way. I had to do rear suspension bushings after I tore them doing donuts, a water pump, then the water pump again when the replacement shed the impeller. Other than that it was basic maintenance. Again, only one data point, but I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.
  Now, when I mile out on my CPO warranty on the 750 in about a year I'm going to be afraid, but I'll keep that car a long time.

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  Feb. 12, 2010 11:59 a.m. Greg Voth Reader

  Soma007 wrote: In reply to Greg Voth: Considering you just bought a 25yr old Volvo I'd take your input with a big grain of salt :) We're just going to have to agree to disagree on the interior materials. I've replaced all four of my window regulators and I still think the E46 interior is still nicer by far.

  A 25 year old Volvo that will easily run with a ZHP or E36 M3 in a straight line. (I am working on the cornering part) Paid about as much for it as those four window regulators repairs would cost at a dealer Besides I have a company car for everyday driving. It makes have toys much easier.

  Don't get me wrong I think they are great driving cars but they have issues, especially when approaching the age they are now. My brothers car was a 2000 4 door that he sold in 2006 with a little over 100k miles. The material around the A pillars was coming off along with the headliner (this lived in VA not FL). It went through three window regulators and two sets of front control arms. It had a bunch of little electrical gremlins with the power locks, dummy lights etc. Other than that it was reliable and drove great. I like them but both the E36 and E46 models seem to have little issues that can ad up. Rear subframe cracking anyone?

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  Feb. 12, 2010 12:16 p.m. angusmf New Reader

  ZOO wrote:

  angusmf wrote: The extra money for the M3 is not worth it, and every time I see one drive by I think "Prick."

  Glad to see you are so open-minded Of course, maybe I do resemble that remark.

  C'mon. You know everybody thinks the same thing . Logically I know that not all M3 drivers are pricks. Just 90% or so.

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