Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Cherokee guys, need some help 1 2

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  Dec. 1, 2010 11:12 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  Alright, so i got the cherokee almost two weeks ago i guess, and it's been great.

  Recap: 2000 Sport 4x4 dark blue, not a spec of rust on it anywhere, runs and drives great, leaks nothing, new valve cover gasket, new tires, new oil pan gasket, a/c recently overhauled, new brakes in the last year. $3000. 170k miles.

  Has two very small issues:

  1) When signaling and standing at a stop light, the blinker will stop well... blinking. But the stalk stays in signal position. If you return the stalk to rest and then put it back in signal position, it'll start blinking again.

  2) At idle once warmed up, the main cooling fan will cycle on and off once every 5 seconds or so. More annoying than anything. The truck does not run hot.

  Thoughts? Is #2 normal? Cheap fixes for either?

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  Dec. 1, 2010 11:16 a.m. Strizzo SuperDork

  1 might be the flasher, what makes it flash is a bimetallic strip heating and pulling away from the contact, so it might be getting hot or just sticking open, or burnt contacts.

  2 is likely somewhat normal, although check the wiring at the temp sensor and/or see if turning the a/c/heat completely off changes things. the fans usually run whenever the a/c compressor is on, and you could be low on refridgerant causing the compressor to short cycle, kicking the fan on and off.

  edit: holy crap i got the numbering to work, seems it needs a "#" symbol ahead of the numbers.
  

  edit #2: apparently that means i get no line breaks... balls

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  Dec. 1, 2010 11:20 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  I don't think the heat changes the cycling of the fan. I can sit there and watch the clutch kick back and forth. Kindof neat, really.

  I haven't tried it with a/c yet. I DO know that the A/C works great, but i haven't tested beyond that since it's a bit chilly here.

  I appreciate the help!

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  Dec. 1, 2010 11:50 a.m. Strizzo SuperDork

  so, is it the fan clutch, or electric fan that kicks on and off? if its an e-fan, even when you have the heat on in most newer cars, the a/c still cycles to dry the air so your windows don't fog up.
  

  could be a fan clutch getting ready to lunch itself, but those usually fail to one mode or the other (all the way locked, or all the way not-locked)
  

  could also be a symptom of another issue. cherokees are kinda notorious for having so-so cooling systems, so it may actually be heating up to the point where it trips the fan clutch to fully lock up

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  Dec. 1, 2010 12:44 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  Strizzo wrote: so, is it the fan clutch, or electric fan that kicks on and off? if its an e-fan, even when you have the heat on in most newer cars, the a/c still cycles to dry the air so your windows don't fog up. could be a fan clutch getting ready to lunch itself, but those usually fail to one mode or the other (all the way locked, or all the way not-locked) could also be a symptom of another issue. cherokees are kinda notorious for having so-so cooling systems, so it may actually be heating up to the point where it trips the fan clutch to fully lock up

  It's the clutched fan. (Can you tell i know next to nothing about these trucks?)

  The clutch itself seems to be functioning quite well to be able to go back and forth so often without a hitch. Who knows, this may even be normal? It never even thinks about overheating, that's for sure. At idle, the fan never seems to run for longer than 4-5 seconds, then it'll shut off for 4-5 seconds, then kick back in for 4-5 seconds, wash, rinse, repeat.

  Could a low coolant level potentially cause this? I'll be honest and say that i haven't really checked fluids other than to see if it had oil in it when i bought it.

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  Dec. 1, 2010 3:05 p.m. EricM Dork

  2 If you have it set for "defrost" the ac compressor cycles every so often to help get the moisture out of the air.

  If you put it on just Heat then it "should stop" If it still cycles then there is either a vacuum issue with slider (do 2000 have the slider of a knob?) or some electrical thing is up with telling the compressor to cycle. I would check fuses first, that fixed my horn and my rear window defroster problem, fuses.

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  Dec. 1, 2010 3:09 p.m. autoXinCivic None

  In reply to 93celicaGT2: i would try an electronic turnsignal flasher and see if that helps with the turn signal. the fan i would try the coolent temp sender and sensor mine did it where it just wouldnt run. but also some of the newer jeeps the elec. fan runs just the sender is still warm so i will run on hot days in a paarkin lot when its just sittin off. good luck if all else fails i just put a toggle switch in mine

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  Dec. 1, 2010 3:13 p.m. RossD Dork

  My old '98 jeep always seemed to cycle the fan a lot too. I nevered cared though.

  The previous statements are not endorsed by Grassroots Motorsports or their sponsors.

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  Dec. 1, 2010 3:21 p.m. Bobzilla Dork

  OK.... the clutch fan is mechanical. Changing sensors is not going to affect the mechanical clutch. there's no wires. No electronics. Just a silly little coil spring that changes tension when exposed to heat.

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  Dec. 1, 2010 3:57 p.m. miatame Reader

  Yeah I was going to say turn off defrost since that will engage your AC which will turn on the Electric fan. This will cycle if you are low on refrig. It is the clutch fan though...odd.

  It sounds like the clutch fan is on the way out. It shouldn't cycle at all. It will engage when temps get hot and disengage when it is running cool. It also will be engaged when you first turn on a cold motor...but I can't explain that one :) Anyone?

  Anyway, with the engine off (and no chance of it starting!) turn the clutch (main) fan by hand. If there is resistance it should be fine, if it turns easily by hand you need a new clutch.

  Can't help you with the turn signal. Sounds like a fun electrical thing.

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  Dec. 1, 2010 4:29 p.m. Strizzo SuperDork

  miatame wrote: It also will be engaged when you first turn on a cold motor...but I can't explain that one :) Anyone? Anyway, with the engine off (and no chance of it starting!) turn the clutch (main) fan by hand. If there is resistance it should be fine, if it turns easily by hand you need a new clutch.

  from: http://www.offroaders.com/tech/fan-clutch.htm

  The Thermal Fan Clutch is engaged at startup because a non-spinning thermal clutch will drain the fluid into the working area of the reservoir. When the clutch begins to spin, the pumping action of the clutch in it's cool state moves the fluid way from the working area until the valve moved it back.

  so, i'll vote again for fan clutch getting ready to toss its lunch. the transition from slipping to full lockup should be relatively gradual, not loose....locked like you see on the a/c clutch when the magnet engages.

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  Dec. 2, 2010 4:23 a.m. Speediot New Reader

  I can help you with your first question, as I have the same Jeep. I bet the flasher relay is going bad. Mine made strange clicking sounds when it wasn't working right. The relay is under/behind the dash, accessed from undeneath on the left side of the steering column. Not the easiest place for normal sized (ie. big) hands, but I was able to change it out in a few minutes and have not had a problem since.

  I wish mine was rust-free, but I bought it in Detroit, so no chance there.

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  Dec. 2, 2010 8:25 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  EricM wrote: #2 If you have it set for "defrost" the ac compressor cycles every so often to help get the moisture out of the air. If you put it on just Heat then it "should stop" If it still cycles then there is either a vacuum issue with slider (do 2000 have the slider of a knob?) or some electrical thing is up with telling the compressor to cycle. I would check fuses first, that fixed my horn and my rear window defroster problem, fuses.

  Well, it's not the a/c that's cycling. It's the main belt-driven fan. I'll put it through some paces tonite and see what other corresponding things i can find.

  I'll probably go ahead and order the fan clutch on Bob and other's recommendations, and that would make sense, since that was really the one thing that wasn't replaced in the cooling system recently.

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  Dec. 2, 2010 8:53 a.m. WilberM3 Reader

  i wish i still had a normal jeep so i could buy replacement parts from these guys. lots of odd NOS parts and hard to find elsewhere things for XJ cherokees and a few others too now.

  http://www.teamcherokee.com/Cooling/index.html

  Dave

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  Dec. 6, 2010 3:06 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  Ok, it does go away with hvac completely off, so i guess it is the A/C fan after all.

  Next questions:

  1) Is it possible to have the heat on without the a/c cycling?
  2) Just how hot should the heat get in this thing? It's... warm, but not THAT warm. Never really gets toasty inside in single digit days.

  I'm really not psyched about doing a heater core, so please tell me that this is just normal.

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  Dec. 6, 2010 3:36 p.m. miatame Reader

  93celicaGT2 wrote: Ok, it does go away with hvac completely off, so i guess it is the A/C fan after all. Next questions: 1) Is it possible to have the heat on without the a/c cycling? 2) Just how hot should the heat get in this thing? It's... warm, but not THAT warm. Never really gets toasty inside in single digit days. I'm really not psyched about doing a heater core, so please tell me that this is just normal.

  1) Yes, definitely. Just don't have the middle selector knob in the "AC" section which has the blue figures, or on either of the Defrost settings which have the triangular ranbow thingy. So in other words select either face only or feet only.

  2) You probably have it set in the AC range so it is trying to AC your heat! :)

  PS. This also means you're low on refrigerant which indicates a leak. HAVE FUN! :) No but you'll likely have to get some dye in the system so you know where the leak is. Or just fill it every 6 months like me. haha

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  Dec. 6, 2010 3:53 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  Yeahh... i'll just be refilling it.

  Thanks for the help. I will go back and see if it's any warmer on the other settings.

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  Dec. 13, 2010 8:40 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  Alright, heat is worked out well enough for now. It's way warmer on the non-defrost settings, and i think a lot of what we're feeling is a cabin space 3x bigger than the other cars, with the same amount of vents. It DOES get warm, just takes longer than the other tiny cars. Who woulda thunk?

  ANYWAYS, new thing to be paranoid about.

  In the snowy mess yesterday, she drove to work in 4wd High. She didn't report any problems with it, other than actually saying that it seemed to not grip as well from a standing stop as it did in 2wd. Weird, but i can roll with that in the conditions we had.

  I drove it last night to get the groceries. I put it in 4wd High, noticed a lack of grip, then about 15 seconds down the road, a very disturbing grinding noise started from the transmission/transfer case area. I immediately shifted into neutral and put it back into 2wd, and all was fine. It sounded like when you grind a gear in a manual trans, but kept on going.

  Now, simply because i'm paranoid, i didn't try again. But sitting in my parking space, i noticed that there feels like there's TWO "catch points" when pulling back to 4wd High. I pulled back to the second one.

  I guess i should just try again, but is it possible that i went too far on the sticker and kindof half-assed engaged it and it popped out? She didn't have the noise when she drove it, and she drove it about 8 miles to work.

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  Dec. 13, 2010 11:33 a.m. miatame Reader

  Pull it straight back from the 2wd position until you can't pull it anymore. There is a catch on the left side so pull it towards the drivers side to make sure it is catching at the first location. To get to transfer case neutral and 4wd low you have to push it towards the passenger side and back.

  Just make sure you are putting it in 4wd high. This sounds like the grinding noise you get going to 4wd low if you aren't completely stopped. FWIW you can shift in and out of 4wd high while the transmission is still in gear. It doesn't hurt to put it in neutral first though.

  If it is broken you can't break it more so I would suggest you get out there again and try it. Make sure you are not on dry pavement unless you are going perfectly straight.

  Either way it shouldn't be less grip in 4wd haha. Even on crappy AS tires all my Cherokees pull like crazy out of the hole in the snow.

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  Dec. 13, 2010 11:56 a.m. daytonaer Reader

  93celicaGT2 wrote: 2) Just how hot should the heat get in this thing? It's... warm, but not THAT warm. Never really gets toasty inside in single digit days.

  Check to see if the vents on the floor are blocked. My passengers kept complaining they were cold, apparently when the PO took his stereo out he let the carpet sit on top of the vent outlet, stopped heat from reaching passenger foot well. Its a small outlet. The heater is great, I usually leave it in the middle of temp settings once its warmed up. floor mats or carpet could block the vents easily. good luck with 4wd, my experiences in 2wd and snow involve driving sideways. 4wd keeps it straight with lots of traction.
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  Dec. 13, 2010 12:40 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  miatame wrote: Pull it straight back from the 2wd position until you can't pull it anymore. There is a catch on the left side so pull it towards the drivers side to make sure it is catching at the first location. To get to transfer case neutral and 4wd low you have to push it towards the passenger side and back. Just make sure you are putting it in 4wd high. This sounds like the grinding noise you get going to 4wd low if you aren't completely stopped. FWIW you can shift in and out of 4wd high while the transmission is still in gear. It doesn't hurt to put it in neutral first though. If it is broken you can't break it more so I would suggest you get out there again and try it. Make sure you are not on dry pavement unless you are going perfectly straight. Either way it shouldn't be less grip in 4wd haha. Even on crappy AS tires all my Cherokees pull like crazy out of the hole in the snow.

  Yeah, it was definitely not 4low, haven't tried that yet besides going back and forth out of a parking spot. I'll try again and see what happens. Like i said, the girlfriend said that the noise didn't happen when she used it, so who knows what happened.

  My worst case scenario is that my transfer case is shot, yes? Is that an absolutely horrible/expensive job to do? Seems i can get cases out of the local junkyards for $400 or less, but is the job something that will make me want to off myself?

  Do i have a 231 or a 242 t-case?

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  Dec. 13, 2010 1:21 p.m. Strizzo SuperDork

  you may not have gotten the tcase all the way into 4hi, OR, something is terribly wrong and the tcase could need rebuilding, but that is not real likely since the drivetrain is pretty beefy.
  

  did the XJs of that vintage have the vacuum hub lock? on some years to disconnect the front axle from turning going down the road, it had a vacuum operated disconnect, which was prone to failure, i think jcwhitney makes a cable operated manual one. if its not working you won't have 4wd unless you had a locker in the front, and even then it'd be 3wd.

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  Dec. 13, 2010 1:26 p.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

  Strizzo wrote: you may not have gotten the tcase all the way into 4hi, OR, something is terribly wrong and the tcase could need rebuilding, but that is not real likely since the drivetrain is pretty beefy. did the XJs of that vintage have the vacuum hub lock? on some years to disconnect the front axle from turning going down the road, it had a vacuum operated disconnect, which was prone to failure, i think jcwhitney makes a cable operated manual one. if its not working you won't have 4wd unless you had a locker in the front, and even then it'd be 3wd.

  I dunno, i yanked it pretty hard.
  

  As for the vaccuum hub lock, i have no idea at all. I know japanese FWD crapboxes. I know nothing about this thing. Don't even know if it has disc brakes on all four corners, to be honest with you.

  But if you think that at 170k miles the transfer case should still be fine, i'll run with that for the time being.

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  Dec. 13, 2010 1:33 p.m. Strizzo SuperDork

  In reply to 93celicaGT2:

  its just like a little second manual transmission in there, so if the dogs aren't lined up when you yank on the handle, they may not mesh together right. the lever should hold tension on the dogs until they mesh together, but yours may not have slotted in nicely and made the nasty sound. i've had that happen on my xterra with the electric shift when the rears were turning a bit faster than the fronts as i was trying to not get stuck in the sand while selecting 4hi.
  

  i think the YJs used the vacuum hub selector for all years, and cherokees would have been similar i think... a quick search of the jeep forums should clear it up and what to look for.

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  Dec. 13, 2010 3:40 p.m. WilberM3 HalfDork

  your 2000 does not have a vacuum axle disconnect. that was pre-91. i'd guess your tcase is fine as well, though at that age its worth changing all the fluids as they likely havent been done more than once if ever.

  the 4wd engagement is like strizzo said basically a synchronized manual transmission. its possible that one of the linkages between the 4wd handle and the transfer case's engagement lever is bent and therefore not long enough to fully engage the teeth. but like i said a fluid change could help a rough engagement too.

  Dave

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