Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » BMW 5-series: Changed Battery, Now Alarm Won't Quit 1 2

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  May 11, 2011 10:53 a.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

  ok, WTF? we had to remove the battery from a test vehicle, and when we put it back in, the alarm won't quit sounding. tech can't find anything in the owner's manual (or perhaps there's no owner's manual in the car, i'm not clear on that).

  So, who knows the magic procedure? Does it matter if we connect positive terminal before or after negative? Is there some combination or sequence of key fob button pushes to solve this problem? What seems crazy to me is that with the alarm sounding, we can lock and unlock the doors with the key fob or with the key, we can start the engine (and if I'm understanding my tech correctly, we can drive the car with the alarm sounding).

  Help?!

  Vehicle in question is a RHD Euro-Diesel, if that matters.

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  May 11, 2011 11:08 a.m. Strike_Zero HalfDork

  E39, E60??

  I used to get this on the E34 and had to do the reset ECU "feature" (jump the positive and negative wires and then turn ignition to on for 30secs to 10 minutes) to correct the issue . . .

  -=PJ=- "Oh FFFFFFFUUUUUUUU . . ."

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  May 11, 2011 11:12 a.m. z31maniac SuperDork

  I thought at some point on the 5 series, a new battery also meant a trip to the dealer and a reprogram for the ECU.

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  May 11, 2011 11:17 a.m. Strike_Zero HalfDork

  I think that's deal on E39 and E60 chassis . . .memory is fuzzy

  -=PJ=- "Oh FFFFFFFUUUUUUUU . . ."

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  May 11, 2011 11:20 a.m. 4cylndrfury SuperDork

  Its a beemer, and youre diagnosing electrics. You need a can of unicorn tears delivered on February 31st to fix it.

  Real cars only have one header!

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  May 11, 2011 11:26 a.m. oldtin Dork

  there's a bunch of posts on bimmerforums about this - a few possibilities. Door actuators - apparently if a door was open when repowering - could have caused a fault - close all doors, try manually locking/unlocking doors. Key fob - connections break - usually a no-start kind of fault though. Bad module. Located under rear seat - left side. Otherwise, there's a couple of fuses on the module you can pull to bypass. I'm guessing actuator fault - most of the other issues seem to end up with a no-start situation.

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  May 11, 2011 12:03 p.m. curtis73 Dork

  Although not advisable due to spark reasons... what usually works for me is to reconnect the battery with the key in the on position, then start it as soon as the terminal is on.

  You can usually bypass that issue by closing all the doors and holding the pin of the hood or trunk down (wherever the battery is) while connecting the terminals. If the car thinks its all closed up, it should be fine.

  I'm bringing sexy back

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  May 11, 2011 12:25 p.m. 02Pilot Reader

  E39 does not require any reprogramming. On that chassis at least, alarm problems are very often caused by the hood sensor (located on the driver's side, on the forward edge of the cabin air filter housing). Simply unplug it and see if the problem goes away. The part is $30 or so.

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  May 11, 2011 12:55 p.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

  it's a MY2010.

  connecting from inside vehicle with all doors hood and trunk closed, then cycling lock / unlock with key fob buttons did not resolve issue.

  i will have him try locking/unlocking with key in door.

  any other suggestions?

  if you're gonna be a bear.... be a grizzly bear!

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  May 11, 2011 1:03 p.m. John Brown SuperDork

  While I am not seconding the Unicorn tears, I am almost certain that there is an OBDII diagnostic protocol that needs to be followed through the OE diagnostic scanner to "reset basic settings".

  From SanDiego BMW:

  http://sandiegobmw.wordpress.com/2010/03/29/bmw-with-a-dead-battery-stop-tow-save-tons-of-dough/ said: The BMW electrical system has gotten extremely complex, mainly due to the fact that they aren’t just cars anymore. They are a home computer, entertainment center, home office, and a robotic personal assistant all wrapped in steel with an engine and 4 wheels. This all requires a significant amount of wiring, control modules, and electrical monitoring systems that make everything work. To complicate things, all of these functions rely upon each other for power and reliability. Simply put, they are strung together like old Christmas tree lights – one goes out and the rest of the strand is closed for business. The main difference is that instead of just grabbing that extra bulb that came with the lights, fixing the strand can start with a $280 module – in this case the Car Access System, or CAS. There’s no guarantee that the rest of the lights are going to shine after it is replaced. These support groups are so fragile that any disturbance in power can render the module useless, which hopefully illustrates why changing a battery can become the most expensive little light you’ve ever tried to replace to get things going again. The second victim of this battery change attempt was the SZL, which is basically the control module that controls things such as wipers, instrumentation, steering wheel buttons, the horn, turn signals, etc, etc. In short, you cannot just change a battery, there is a specific procedure that must be followed in order to do it successfully. Ben Amen at our shop explains: The car must be off and key out of the ignition. The battery should be sonically tested for bad cells, and once tested poorly, should be replaced with a battery of the SAME SIZE and Cold Cranking Amperage to ensure these complex systems receive the same power input that they would from the factory. When removing the cables one must be very mindful of the delicate positive AND negative terminals, as each connection contains a very sensitive micro-control module on them that monitors power input and output of the battery in addition to communication with the airbag deployment string of modules. Once the battery is replaced, it must be digitally registered with the car’s DME (Digital Motor Electronic control computer) so that the alternator ‘knows’ how to properly charge the battery and prevent premature wear on the alternator itself and the battery. Sometimes, some control modules must be updated when the battery is registered with the car. OK, enough technical stuff. Let’s talk dollars. In this particular case, the car lost several modules and one battery cable. Tons of re-programming and coding was also needed as each step was executed during repair in order to save modules that had yet to be affected. Total? Over $2300 for one mistake. I’m starting to think there might be a market for battery warning stickers . . . Chris Keefer

  Tell me the guy responsible for this has NOT participated in a GRM Challenge.

  I have the feeling our government is banking on the popularity of American Cheese.

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  May 11, 2011 1:11 p.m. pigeon Dork

  Search out INPA and DIS and be prepared to spend some quality time with a laptop connected to the car, or take it to a dealer and have them program it. Start here . You'll also need an OBDII to USB cable - anything that works with a VAGCOM should work but read up to make sure you get one that functions correctly. Be careful, I screwed up the BMW Assist function on my 750 just poking through the menus.

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  May 11, 2011 1:30 p.m. Teh E36 M3 HalfDork

  In reply to John Brown: WTF. So alternators haven't worked 'well enough' for 50 years that we have to have some monitoring system to "properly charge the battery"?
  

  Here's an idea: That E36 M3 works, BMW. How about spending some engineering resources where they can be useful.
  

  Sorry about the rant, but that's out of hand.

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  May 11, 2011 1:40 p.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

  In reply to pigeon:

  Sorry dude, but you lost me at VAGCOM.

  if you're gonna be a bear.... be a grizzly bear!

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  May 11, 2011 1:43 p.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

  i'm not giving up yet, but since it's a test vehicle there's a good chance i'll just put it on the trailer and take it to the local BMW dealership. am still hoping that someone here (ansonivan, i'm talking to you!) is going to reply with the silver bullet.

  if you're gonna be a bear.... be a grizzly bear!

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  May 11, 2011 1:45 p.m. John Brown SuperDork

  Call Rennie? He knows who you are ;)

  I have the feeling our government is banking on the popularity of American Cheese.

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  May 11, 2011 2:09 p.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

  In reply to John Brown:

  I missed Rennie yesterday afternoon. One of his guys gave me the same procedure that Curtis73 posted (closing all the doors and holding the pin of the hood or trunk down (wherever the battery is) while connecting the terminals. If the car thinks its all closed up, it should be fine. ) I relayed it to the tech, but he told me it did not work.

  if you're gonna be a bear.... be a grizzly bear!

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  May 11, 2011 2:16 p.m. triumph5 Dork

  What happens if you simmply disconnect the wire to the alarm? Will the car run and drive? It'll buy you time for more R&D on this problem.

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  May 11, 2011 2:20 p.m. John Brown SuperDork

  triumph5 wrote: What happens if you simmply disconnect the wire to the alarm? Will the car run and drive? It'll buy you time for more R&D on this problem.

  There is no "wire to the alarm". It is incorporated into the vehicle from the factory and it is likely that even the horn wires have data connector cable in them.

  I have the feeling our government is banking on the popularity of American Cheese.

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  May 11, 2011 3:06 p.m. triumph5 Dork

  John Brown wrote:

  triumph5 wrote: What happens if you simmply disconnect the wire to the alarm? Will the car run and drive? It'll buy you time for more R&D on this problem.

  There is no "wire to the alarm". It is incorporated into the vehicle from the factory and it is likely that even the horn wires have data connector cable in them.

  Ear plugs. There has to be some way to at least muffle the sound of the alarm whilst fixing this. "How do dealerships handle this," just might be the only thing to do.

  OTOH, how do the guys at Advance Auto handle this when they do the "free change out" of a BMW's battery? They may be worth a call. .

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  May 11, 2011 3:31 p.m. AngryCorvair SuperDork

  triumph5 wrote: OTOH, how do the guys at Advance Auto handle this when they do the "free change out" of a BMW's battery? They may be worth a call. .

  

  Brilliant!

  if you're gonna be a bear.... be a grizzly bear!

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  May 11, 2011 3:46 p.m. Toyman01 SuperDork

  Now I know I'll never own a BMW.

  On a more helpful note, the alarm in the wife's van will freak out occasionally. Usually when a key is pulled out of a lock before it's fully turned back to the neutral position. Probably doesn't help though since it's a Chevy and fairly simple.

  The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!

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  May 11, 2011 7:04 p.m. Teh E36 M3 HalfDork

  Toyman01 wrote: Now I know I'll never own a BMW. On a more helpful note, the alarm in the wife's van will freak out occasionally. Usually when a key is pulled out of a lock before it's fully turned back to the neutral position. Probably doesn't help though since it's a Chevy and fairly simple.

  Thing is, I liked my '95 M3... I know it was the beginning of all the data link etc's, but it was a really cool car. I'd agree- instead of cross shopping newer E39's, I'm looking at CTS-V's and the like. I believe that the Chevy's aren't as bad, but maybe we're just hearing about it because we expect more out of a "premium" car. I was pessimistic about buying a fuel injected car until we learned that they're really more reliable, and pretty darn easy to fix, and now I feel that same apprehension about the creep of computer controlled everything. Like I said above, the alternator doesn't need to be computer controlled.... it works fine and has done so for 50 years. How much extra efficiency are you going to derive out of it?

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  May 11, 2011 7:17 p.m. Keith SuperDork

  You guys don't want to know where the regulator for a 1999 Miata alternator is It's not just high-end BMWs that have the computer do that job. I think that job was given over to the computer in order to better control the load on the engine and thus get by some seriously nutso emissions regulations.

  In my E39, it developed an airbag code after an episode of random alarming on a cold night and a dead battery. My special BMW tool says the airbag computer is dead. I spoke to a BMW dealer about having them install a new one, but they say there's no one computer but a network of airbag computers that each run one bag. I can't tell which one is the problem without getting it scanned, and the nearest BMW dealer is about 250 miles away. Sigh.

  I did just replace the battery in the E39 last week. No special procedure was required before, during or after.

  Square left in 50 caution ocean!

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  May 11, 2011 8:08 p.m. pigeon Dork

  Keith, as I implied earlier INPA is the BMW diagnostics computer, and with an appropriate cable it will read all your computer modules and tell you which ones don't respond. It's very powerful and can do virtually everything the dealer's computer can do. It can be a pain to set up initially on a laptop but once set up it will be your best friend for diagnosis. Which reminds me that I really need to set it up on a newer laptop for my E66. There's an entire diagnostic software section on Bimmerforums, prepare to spend some time learning.

  The following late-model vehicles require battery registration: · 2002 and newer 7-Series E65/E66 chassis · 2003 and newer 6-Series E54/E63 chassis · 2004 and newer 5-Series E60/E61 chassis · 2006 and newer 3-Series E90/E91/E92/E93 chassis · 2007 and newer X5 E70 chassis · 2008 and newer X6 E71 chassis

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  May 11, 2011 8:16 p.m. aussiesmg SuperDork

  Glad I have an E46

  Cornering is like bringing a woman to climax. Jackie Stewart

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