Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Best Racing School? 1 2

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  Jan. 5, 2010 11:06 p.m. JeepinMatt HalfDork

  Ok, so I'm ready to pull the trigger on a racing school. And not just a one-day session, but a 3-4 day bugger that will qualify for a competition license. Seeing as how I'm preparing myself for a production-based car in a road racing series, I'd like to stick with something similar. Not midgets or stock cars.

  My original thought was Bob Bondurant's school. They have a good reputation and the people on the other end of the phone were very helpful. The only things that make me think twice are the distance (North Carolina's coast to Phoenix) and the cost, which I missed out on a discount that might put the course out of reach. Skip Barber is another good one, although that's MX-5s or open wheel cars. I'm not sure how the two compare on seat time, either.

  Justin Bell's school disappeared years ago, far as I know. Panoz's Racing School combined or announced some deal with Skip too. Jim Russell's way more expensive. Any other personal recommendations or experiences?

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  Jan. 5, 2010 11:29 p.m. CagleRacing New Reader

  I haven't been to a professional racing school, but as a suggestion if you have to travel far, spend an extra day in your destination relaxing before attending the school. You're spending a lot of money and want the most bang for your buck, so start the first day well rested and focused.

  www.CagleRacing.com

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  Jan. 5, 2010 11:47 p.m. JeepinMatt HalfDork

  Yeah, I'd get off about a day and a half before the 4-day Bondurant school starts, so I'd probably be flying and sleeping all the way there. At least I gain three hours.

  Skip Barber's 3-day course would work good too, they start on Friday and run through Sunday. I'd need to get a day off, but they come to VIR and Road Atlanta, both a not-too-bad drive or train ride away. I'd don't know if I'd go for the Formula car or the MX-5.

  "But this is HDTV. It's got better resolution than the real world."

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  Jan. 6, 2010 1:35 a.m. JeepinMatt HalfDork

  Before I go to bed for the night, I should add that I'm looking specifically for a racing school to teach technique that I can use in a racing series, not simply a "fun three days." The club schools and HPDEs are great, and I'm planning on attending several after I attend the school, not as a substitute. The lower cost, plus the fact that I don't have to fly nearly as far (or at all) may allow me to do the Skip Barber 3 day course, then an Advanced Lapping course another day for the same cost as the 4-day Bondurant course. The Advanced Lapping course would add another 100 miles of driving. But almost all of them are on the west coast. Hmm.

  "But this is HDTV. It's got better resolution than the real world."

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  Jan. 6, 2010 6:47 a.m. CGLockRacer Reader

  I raced with Skip Barber this last season in the Mazdaspeed Challenge MX-5's. I do not have any experience with Bonduraunt or other schools. Although I have met Bonduraunt himself a couple of times, very nice person.

  The instruction and coaching with SB is second to none. The instructors love to help and have a blast doing it too. Just make sure to keep an open mind, and listen. Bounce your ideas off of them, too.
  

  VIR is an incredible track. I also raced at CMP, although I don't know if they do schools there. I chose Skip Barber because of the different tracks they run and their alumni roster. Racing the MX-5's will help you with the door to door racing also. I never ran the open wheel, but that's not the direction I want to go. Good luck!

  Phil - www.TeamMatherMotorsport.com

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  Jan. 6, 2010 8:31 a.m. stuart in mn SuperDork

  Check out http://www.hallettracingschool.com/school.html in Oklahoma. Classes are small, you get a LOT of seat time in real race cars, the price is reasonable and the track is a lot of fun to drive (disclosure - the track and school are owned by my cousins, but even so I'd still recommend them.) I see they don't have their 2010 schedule up on their website yet, but you can give them a call.

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  Jan. 6, 2010 12:35 p.m. nasaregistrar Dork

  who do you intend to race with? Generally those 3 day schools help but are not an instant comp license by any stretch.

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  Jan. 6, 2010 1:50 p.m. JeepinMatt HalfDork

  nasaregistrar wrote: who do you intend to race with? Generally those 3 day schools help but are not an instant comp license by any stretch.

  Spec E30. School isn't a replacement for HPDEs and on-track practice, just a complement.

  Also, how is FAASST's reputation? Are they a real show-you-proper-racing-technique and fundamentals school, or a "fun day out for some spirited driving" school?

  "But this is HDTV. It's got better resolution than the real world."

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  Jan. 6, 2010 4:41 p.m. nasaregistrar Dork

  JeepinMatt wrote:

  nasaregistrar wrote: who do you intend to race with? Generally those 3 day schools help but are not an instant comp license by any stretch.

  Spec E30. School isn't a replacement for HPDEs and on-track practice, just a complement.

  Also, how is FAASST's reputation? Are they a real show-you-proper-racing-technique and fundamentals school, or a "fun day out for some spirited driving" school?

  Well you could hire Skeen for a couple days??

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  Jan. 6, 2010 8:08 p.m. willy19592 Reader

  matt I had the same dilemma a few years ago. with an extra twist. I already had a spec miata, and wanted advanced school. Skippy was just introducing the mx5 to the school. I had my choice. through careful consideration, and many forum folks help on SM.net I chose the open wheel car. I believe it was the right choice for me.

  Skippy was a value I still see. Im sure the other schools are every bit as good

  Willy@isellmiataparts.com

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  Jan. 7, 2010 1:08 a.m. CLNSC3 Reader

  Interesting thread, I am also considering attending a 3-4 day school! Can't wait to hear some more opinions...

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  Jan. 7, 2010 2:22 a.m. GR40RACER New Reader

  I got my racing license at Bondurant's school back in the early 1980's when he was at Sears Point in Northern California, they were using Ford Mustangs at the time having just switched from the Datsun 280ZX for the school cars. I saw Bob at SEMA 2008, he's still getting about and regurally attends the school and even does ride alongs; Bob's one of the nicest, genuine guys in the business.

  Speed Junkie Since 16

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  Jan. 7, 2010 6:50 a.m. Don49 New Reader

  I don't think you can go wrong with Skip. I know, have raced with some of his instructors, and they are top notch. They will give you a lot of insights that go far beyond the basics of car control and proper lines. Also, it would appear that Skip is your closest posssible choice geographically.

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  Jan. 7, 2010 9:18 a.m. amg_rx7 Reader

  GRM did an article on race schools a while back. Unfortunately, I don't think its online and I don't remember the issue.

  If your intent is racing, get in touch with SCCA and ask which school will get your rookie license.

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  Jan. 7, 2010 11:21 a.m. dj06482 Reader

  I attended a Skip Barber two-day High Performance Driving class a few years ago. I was a spectator at an ALMS race at Lime Rock, and got something like 30% off the regular price at the class by putting a deposit down at the ALMS event. If you could find a local event where Skip Barber is advertising and sign up there, that might save you some significant money. Or just call them up and ask for a discount.

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  Jan. 7, 2010 3:37 p.m. Basil Exposition New Reader

  I went to Bondurant about 8 years ago for a 3 day school.
  

  Bondurant has top-notch instructors and equipment and their own track. I could not recommend them or the experience more highly. They do tend to be more expensive, but worth it.

  I haven't attended anyone else's school, so I can't really compare, but I don't think you can go wrong at Bondurant. It seems to me that if you are going to be racing a production based car there would be some benefit to learning in one. Not to mention the fact that you can sit side-by-side with the instructor for coaching. Bondurant has both open and closed wheel and offers you the choice.

  Bondurant offers summer discounts because the heat in Phoenix cuts attendance in the summer. It is damned hot, but their cars have air conditioning in them and they move the working hours to earlier in the day. IIRC, you can save 20% to 30% off the peak season.

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  Jan. 7, 2010 3:41 p.m. JeepinMatt HalfDork

  dj06482 wrote: Or just call them up and ask for a discount.

  Already tried that. Nothing that isn't listed on their site, i.e. a couple hundred dollars off for signing up early. I do head up to VIR when they've got races, so I could check it out. Even if there is no discount to be had, it wouldn't be a wasted trip.

  Skip comes to VIR, which is very close to me, in early May. The problem? It's my fiancee's birthday. Road Atlanta is another close option, but it only runs Monday-Tuesday-Wednesday. Sebring runs on the weekend, and that's about as far as I can realistically get without heading to CT or CA.

  That comment about Bondurant offering discounts - is that something I could count on? As in, does that happen just about every year? At least it's a dry heat. Triple digits here in NC are a guaranteed thing every year, and it's humid. I remember a 40% discount in 2008. Shoulda gone then. It's the damn airfare and hotel costs that sneak up on you.

  "But this is HDTV. It's got better resolution than the real world."

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  Jan. 11, 2010 7:49 p.m. JeepinMatt HalfDork

  Scraping together the last bit of money is hard. Seems like I need new everything right now, not just car stuff.

  "But this is HDTV. It's got better resolution than the real world."

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  Jan. 11, 2010 9:09 p.m. miwifri New Reader

  I took three schools with Skip Barber at the time I was doing HPDEs starting in '05. These qualified me for an SCCA license and were accepted for my NASA license when I started racing in "07. I felt well prepared to start racing and had plenty of role models when I became an instructor in "09. I liked the systematic and disciplined approach which you don't always get at HPDEs. I think they made it possible for me to make fast progress at every stage. I race an S2000 and felt no disadvantage for having taken the open wheel school. I will probably do the MX5 school at some point. A good school is going to be pricey but it's worth the money, IMO. Their book "Going Faster" is pretty good too.

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  Jan. 11, 2010 9:29 p.m. carguy123 SuperDork

  I looked at Bondurant as well as Skip Barber and chose Skip over one minor point, insurance. Bob wanted me to buy not so inexpensive supplemental insurance in case something happened to the car and it was part of the package at Skip.

  I can't compare the 2, but I learned a lot at Skip Barber. I learned that from 155 mph you can make a 90 degree right turn in a surprisingly short amount of distance. More like what I'd have done in my street car at 60 mph.

  "mobilito ergo sum" I drive therefore I am!

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  Jan. 11, 2010 10:08 p.m. JeepinMatt HalfDork

  I'd like to hear more about FAASST. I might have to do their gold package in my own car this March, then wait and do Skip or Bondurant in the summer, or maybe the early fall. I just don't want to go to a school that doesn't focus on racing lines over fun-day-on-the-track lines.

  "But this is HDTV. It's got better resolution than the real world."

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  Jan. 12, 2010 7:06 a.m. aeronca65t HalfDork

  Some good ideas here.

  I have no finacial interest, but let me just recommend my pal Charlie at Entropy Racing. Charlie will supply a prepared car (or use your's) and take you through the NASA or EMRA license program. He also has his own race series with Sport Racers and you can run in that too. If you want a wheel-to-wheel license, he will make it happen.

  http://www.entropyracing.net/

  I know you didn't mention this but perhaps others reading may be interested: as far as vintage racing, the best deal on the east coast is the VRG race school that is part of the New Hampshire Vintage on May 21-23. Many (I think most) of the folks that take this school walk away with a w-2-w race license for vintage racing in just one weekend. I've sat in on this school.....it's excellent. The school is only a few hundred bucks (last year) and you do not need a vintage car to take it (someone used a SpecMiata last year). Since VRG is a member of the Vintage Motorsports Council ( http://v-m-c.org ) their license is recognized by SVRA, HSR, VSCCA, etc. They haven't put the full info up for the 2010 race school yet, but it should go up soon on the link below.

  http://www.vrgonline.org/events_calendar/vrg_events.html

  Enjoy Every Sandwich ~ W.Z.

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  Jan. 12, 2010 10:42 a.m. DWNSHFT Reader

  Yes, you can count on Bondurant offering significant discounts in the summer. But call right now and see what discounts they have now. All the schools are in serious financial difficulty due to the economy and they might throw you a sweet price to get you in the door.

  Bondurant's track is tighter than, say, Laguna. That keeps you very busy with transitions and also you don't go as far when you spin. ;-)

  Driving single-seaters is awesome, but there is absolutely nothing better than having your instructor sitting next to you telling you what to do. That's the way I do all my coaching because it works so much better. Also, you will learn more riding with your instructor than anything else; you can't ride with them ina formula car. :-)

  David

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  Jan. 12, 2010 11:29 a.m. Basil Exposition New Reader

  In reply to JeepinMatt:

  I think the summer discounts for Bondurant are listed on the website now, but you have to do some research. They were offering a special through Dec 23rd, but I think that has lapsed.

  During the summer of and fall of '08 they were calling me with great deals to try and get me to go. They sounded a bit desparate at that time, but things may be better for them.

  As recall the insurance thing (again, do the research) Bondurant held you liable for the first $1500, but that was it. You could buy an insurance policy for the $1500, but I don't remember how much it was. I think we had someone in our school put their car into a guardrail and he had to come up with the $1500. It may have all changed since then.

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  Jan. 12, 2010 5:33 p.m. JeepinMatt HalfDork

  I called Bondurant and they mentioned they had no deals going on right now. They didn't say anything when I asked about the summer discount either.

  "But this is HDTV. It's got better resolution than the real world."

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