Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Best I4s in the 1.6L-2L range, NA or turbo 1 2 3 4

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  July 28, 2011 9:11 a.m. GameboyRMH SuperDork

  What are your thoughts on the best overall engines that meet these specs, for use in a streetable track car. That means decent mileage.

  The 4B11T (Evo 10 engine) looks really good until you notice that along with the V8-level power comes V8-level gas guzzlage. Actually that's unfair, an LS1 gets better mileage.

  The 4AGE series gets very good mileage but is anemic by today's standards. You'd have to put one in a very light car, and even then you'd still be outgunned.

  The 2ZZ-GE is a decent all-rounder but isn't that impressive. Power's just OK. mileage is kind of a let-down.

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  July 28, 2011 9:14 a.m. RossD SuperDork

  Ford BDA

  Ford YB

  00100001

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  July 28, 2011 9:17 a.m. bravenrace SuperDork

  Honda - D,B or K series.

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  July 28, 2011 9:21 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

  GameboyRMH wrote: What are your thoughts on the best overall engines that meet these specs, for use in a streetable track car. That means decent mileage. The 4B11T (Evo 10 engine) looks really good until you notice that along with the V8-level power comes V8-level gas guzzlage. Actually that's unfair, an LS1 gets better mileage. The 4AGE series gets very good mileage but is anemic by today's standards. You'd have to put one in a very light car, and even then you'd still be outgunned. The 2ZZ-GE is a decent all-rounder but isn't that impressive. Power's just OK. mileage is kind of a let-down.

  What are your experiences with the 2zzge? The mileage is an issue because of the transmission it's attached to. People are now making 220-225whp n/a with just bolt ons and a tune these days on this motor as well. It's only real achilles heal is that it doesn't have honda-levels of aftermarket. It's a monster of a motor otherwise.

  I like:

  Toyota 3sgte
  Toyota BEAMS 3sge
  Mitsu 4g63
  Mazda FE3
  Mazda BPD

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  July 28, 2011 9:25 a.m. Luke SuperDork

  Nissan SR20DET.

  4AGZE, the supercharged variant of the 4AGE. Also, turbocharged 4AGE as an aftermarket option. And don't forget the 20V 4AGE.

  "Just as a proverb says, one should always ny escort prepare for a rainy day." - GRM canoe

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  July 28, 2011 9:25 a.m. GameboyRMH SuperDork

  How does the Toyota C60 cause the poor mileage? Not saying it doesn't, I just don't know.

  There's no such thing as "too light." There's "tires too skinny," "not enough downforce" and "underdamped."

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  July 28, 2011 9:27 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

  GameboyRMH wrote: How does the Toyota C60 cause the poor mileage? Not saying it doesn't, I just don't know.

  It's a 6 speed that's redline limited at like... 125mph. The gearing is very VERY tight.

  And poor mileage is somewhat subjective. Most i've seen get upper 20s combined, and around 30mpg on the highway.

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  July 28, 2011 9:33 a.m. HiTempguy Dork

  Luke wrote: 4AGZE, the supercharged variant of the 4AGE.

  Which gets about the same mpg as an evo

  Rallying; It's like skydiving, except you have to dodge trees on your way down!

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  July 28, 2011 9:36 a.m. Zomby woof SuperDork

  How many of them are as good as a 2.0 ecotec? Even the newer 2.2's with VVT are really nice motors.

  AngryCorvair wrote: and that right there is why 90% of the time i think ZW is a berkeleying douchebag.

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  July 28, 2011 9:40 a.m. ProDarwin Dork

  bravenrace wrote: Honda B or K series.

  Fixed. Also the F20C

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  July 28, 2011 9:42 a.m. ProDarwin Dork

  92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: What are your experiences with the 2zzge? The mileage is an issue because of the transmission it's attached to. People are now making 220-225whp n/a with just bolt ons and a tune these days on this motor as well. It's only real achilles heal is that it doesn't have honda-levels of aftermarket. It's a monster of a motor otherwise.

  Doesn't it have oiling issues and like to E36 M3 rod bearings?

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  July 28, 2011 9:43 a.m. integraguy SuperDork

  WHAT? I can't have my cake and eat it too? And I have to pay extra for the ice cream on the side?

  Translation: fuel economy, like (horse)power, is somewhat relative. In my experience, as the level of power produced by a 4 cylinder engine goes up....fuel economy AND reliability start to slide down.

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  July 28, 2011 9:50 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

  ProDarwin wrote:

  92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: What are your experiences with the 2zzge? The mileage is an issue because of the transmission it's attached to. People are now making 220-225whp n/a with just bolt ons and a tune these days on this motor as well. It's only real achilles heal is that it doesn't have honda-levels of aftermarket. It's a monster of a motor otherwise.

  Doesn't it have oiling issues and like to E36 M3 rod bearings?

  Not that i've heard. The only issue that i'm aware of is the "money shift" due to bent shift forks... but that's transmission related, and solutions exist. Later transmissions didn't have the problem, either.

  "Smaay" ran his stock 2zzge + turbo at over 400whp for a couple years with no ill effects, and there's quite a few others over 300whp. I don't think a 220-225whp n/a bolted motor is going to have problems if he didn't.

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  July 28, 2011 9:57 a.m. ProDarwin Dork

  92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Not that i've heard.

  On the track at high revs, the oil pickup starves and the bearings die as a result. Not sure if this was fixed for the Lotus configuration or not.

  OP: Out of curiosity, why the obscure question?

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  July 28, 2011 10:01 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

  ProDarwin wrote:

  92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Not that i've heard.

  On the track at high revs, the oil pickup starves and the bearings die as a result. Not sure if this was fixed for the Lotus configuration or not.

  OP: Out of curiosity, why the obscure question?

  Well if you already knew that it has problems, then why did you ask me if it has problems?

  Got links to anyone dissecting the failures? This is the first i've heard of it, sounds interesting.

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  July 28, 2011 10:05 a.m. z31maniac SuperDork

  ^No link, but a buddy here locally went through TWO rebuilds on his car.

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  July 28, 2011 10:09 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

  Wonder if either of the guys that own the tracked 7th gen GTSs in the reader's rides will happen to see this and weigh in? Would be interested to see what they did to combat it.

  This may be a wrench in my dreams of a 2zzge MR-S.
  

  Of course, it could just be as simple as a baffled oil pan?

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  July 28, 2011 10:13 a.m. RossD SuperDork

  Duratec/MZR

  Also, since we dont have the two other engines that I listed here in the states, let me quantify my previous post:

  • The Ford BDA is a Cosworth head on a Ford xflow block and when developed in 1969, it produced about 120 bhp out of 1600 cc. The 4age is generally accepted as being a massed produced copy of the BD series of engines (http://www.billzilla.org/4agstock.htm) The BDG produced around 295 hp and could rip to 10500 rpm (http://7faq.com/contribute/owbase/ow.asp?Cosworth+BDR+-+it's+history+and+development). The BDT is the engine in the RS200; 'nuff said.

  • The YB is a 16 dohc head on a 2.0 pinto block and is turbocharged. Stock in the '80s was 200 hp and in racing trim got to 400hp.

  Granted these engines were the street version of race engines when sold to the public, but isn't that why we are all here?

  00100001

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  July 28, 2011 10:13 a.m. ProDarwin Dork

  92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Well if you already knew that it has problems, then why did you ask me if it has problems? Got links to anyone dissecting the failures? This is the first i've heard of it, sounds interesting.

  I googled it after I posted to confirm it was the same motor I was thinking of. I know of two people who have had it happen to them in a Celica. One had a baffled pan in it at the time. I don't know how much dissection helps... you oil-starve then the bearings die. That's pretty much it.

  Baffled pan + accusump would probably prevent it from happening. Many many motors suffer from this issue and the preventive measures are usually pretty simple. On the Saturn its as simple as running 1 extra qt.

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  July 28, 2011 10:18 a.m. GameboyRMH SuperDork

  ProDarwin wrote: OP: Out of curiosity, why the obscure question?

  Just mental masturbation over My Ideal Car, don't act like you don't do it too

  There's no such thing as "too light." There's "tires too skinny," "not enough downforce" and "underdamped."

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  July 28, 2011 10:24 a.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

  ProDarwin wrote:

  92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Well if you already knew that it has problems, then why did you ask me if it has problems? Got links to anyone dissecting the failures? This is the first i've heard of it, sounds interesting.

  I googled it after I posted to confirm it was the same motor I was thinking of. I know of two people who have had it happen to them in a Celica. One had a baffled pan in it at the time. I don't know how much dissection helps... you oil-starve then the bearings die. That's pretty much it.

  Baffled pan + accusump would probably prevent it from happening. Many many motors suffer from this issue and the preventive measures are usually pretty simple. On the Saturn its as simple as running 1 extra qt.

  I know the 1zzfe in the Celica GT had oiling issues.... sure we aren't confusing the two motors? They're both 1.8s.

  [edit]

  Hrm ok, the 2zzge does have it above 1G lateral. Seems baffled pan and a Prodrive oil pump is the solution. I do remember the stock oil pump not being the best unit in the world, either.

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  July 28, 2011 10:29 a.m. bravenrace SuperDork

  In reply to ProDarwin:

  Okay, the F should be on there (I fogot it), and maybe the d not, just because there are better more modern options, but the D16A6 is still one heck of an engine, especially considering when it was designed.

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  July 28, 2011 10:46 a.m. Nashco SuperDork

  Ecotec 2.0 turbo...up to 290 hp/360 ft lbs with a 100k mile powertrain warranty, all aluminum block+head, available in longitudinal and transverse configurations including Sky, Solstice, Cobalt, Regal, 9-5, and HHR. Direct injection allows it to have awesome fuel economy and driveability without sacrificing power. What's not to love?

  Bryce

  Portland, OR | '69 Bug | '05 Saabaru | '67 122S | '07 Sky Redline | $2009 AWD Fiero Hybrid | '72 N600 | '00 Insight

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  July 28, 2011 10:50 a.m. GameboyRMH SuperDork

  I've been looking up the specs on these, some of the GM EcoTec 2.0s are very impressive...

  There's no such thing as "too light." There's "tires too skinny," "not enough downforce" and "underdamped."

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  July 28, 2011 11:06 a.m. Zomby woof SuperDork

  Not only that, but look what you can buy for them. If I recall, you can make about 1000 hp on the stock block.

  AngryCorvair wrote: and that right there is why 90% of the time i think ZW is a berkeleying douchebag.

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