Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Best Entry Level Performance Car? 1 2 3 4

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  Nov. 23, 2010 9:06 p.m. Tac New Reader

  So this spring/summer I'm looking to get into a lot of HPDE along with some instructional courses for the first time. Since this will be my first experience at a track I'd like to get into a nice "entry level" performance car. Something where I can learn the fundamentals, not have more car than driver, and also something that's very practical for the track as far as expenses go. I want to get a lot of seat time in, so a car that won't hold up well and is expensive to maintain won't help.

  Price range will be about 10-19k

  Here's a list of cars I'm currently considering, let me know what you think.

  1. BMW Z4 - I imagine I could find a nice 00-04 in my range. I love the look of the car, love that a coupe version is available, and seems like a great platform to start with.

  2. BMW M3 e46 - Great performance, great everything, but everyone drives a BMW. From kids to grannies. Ideally I want something that stands out as a car for the pure enthusiast.

  3. Porsche Boxster S - Love everything about it, except for the fact that it's only available as a convert. That just doesn't appeal to me at all.

  4. Audi TT - Seems interesting, though the response is pretty mixed on these. Do they stack up performance wise?

  5. CLK or SLK?? Also looks like a great platform, but the maintenance worries me and you don't hear too much about these at the track. Anyone have a verdict? Performance wise can they hold their own against the cars listed above?

  6. Mustang Cobra - Outside chance on this one, doesn't seem like the ideal car to start off in.

  That's my list that's definitely subject to change. I'm very interested in hearing what you guys think, help steer me in the right direction! Thanks. Also, the most important thing to me is performance and how fun it will be at the track, I can live with a convertible if it's clearly the better performance option.

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  Nov. 23, 2010 9:13 p.m. Brotus7 Reader

  Let me be the first to say Miata, with a hardtop.

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  Nov. 23, 2010 9:13 p.m. neon4891 SuperDork

  Miata

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  Nov. 23, 2010 9:16 p.m. ansonivan HalfDork

  Best Entry Level Performance Car?

  The one you already own.

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  Nov. 23, 2010 9:16 p.m. Spinout007 Dork

  Miata with a rollbar and hardtop. Plenty of budget left for suspension, wheels and tires.

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  Nov. 23, 2010 9:18 p.m. DukeOfUndersteer SuperDork

  first 4 responses are awesome!

  We are flashin trannys... wait that came out wrong

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  Nov. 23, 2010 9:39 p.m. friedgreencorrado SuperDork

  Don't spend even 10K on your first one. Buy something with less power (a "momentum" car), and learn to dance before you find something where you can put the power down. Big power can cover up a lot of mistakes (it can also get you into big trouble).

  RWD: uh,..hate to echo the choir here, but it's made by Mazda, and starts with an "M". (well, it actually starts with a key, but the name starts with "M". )

  FWD: 3rd gen Honda Civic (sorry, can't recall which chassis that is because Honda chassis codes confuse me), or A2 VW Golf.

  Of course, with that much money to spend, why would you choose FWD?

  EDIT: I should have said don't "waste" that much money on your first one. 10-19K could buy a pretty good lump of used NASA or SCCA legal race car! Improved Touring, Honda Challenge, Spec Miata, Spec E30 or Porsche 944..if you're looking for an HPDE car that you can use on the street as well, there are plenty of other choices.

  How can it be a midlife crisis, when I've driven sportscars my entire life?

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  Nov. 23, 2010 9:43 p.m. irish44j HalfDork

  get a used STi or Evo for half the price of alot of those choices....and it's faster than most of those choices above.

  For about 10k, and STi-swapped Impreza GC is more fun (and faster) than anything short of a boosted Miata :)

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  Nov. 23, 2010 9:49 p.m. Tac New Reader

  ansonivan wrote: Best Entry Level Performance Car? The one you already own.

  An SUV?

  The overwhelming response for the Miata, is that mainly based on the cost?

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  Nov. 23, 2010 9:51 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

  Tac wrote:

  ansonivan wrote: Best Entry Level Performance Car? The one you already own.

  An SUV?

  The overwhelming response for the Miata, is that mainly based on the cost?

  It is a very good chassis. Good suspension geometry, light weight, just enough power to manipulate cornering with the throttle, and cheap.

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  Nov. 23, 2010 10:01 p.m. duetto_67 New Reader

  if you have to 'get' something, get something light. most of the cars on your list will go through tires very quickly at speed. spend half your budget or less on the vehicle, save some bucks for tires/travel/fees/other costs.

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  Nov. 23, 2010 10:02 p.m. forzav12 Reader

  Buy a C4 Corvette. Miatas are for pusscakes.

  Some Ferraris,Musclecars and other junk.

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  Nov. 23, 2010 10:14 p.m. dj New Reader

  Tac wrote:

  ansonivan wrote: Best Entry Level Performance Car? The one you already own.

  An SUV?

  The overwhelming response for the Miata, is that mainly based on the cost?

  It's probably the only real answer for "best entry level performance car". It's a very popular enthusiast car and rings all the bells you've laid out. It's cheap, modern, and reliable so a lot of people racing them. You will have plenty of competition and people to help you out with questions or anything like that. It's a momentum car so you'll have to focus on your ability to drive rather the vehicle's ability to haul ass.

  The only thing I know people cross-recommend here would be an E30 bmw. Maybe dodge neons, civics/crx's, and maybe sentra se-r's for fwd.

  forzav12 wrote: Buy a C4 Corvette. Miatas are for pusscakes.

  Looking at your garage

  Ohhh...

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  Nov. 23, 2010 10:33 p.m. skeze New Reader

  I am surprised that no one has put the all glorious Honda S2000 on this list of contenders...I believe that for the p[rice range you are in you will be happier with the Honda than the Mazda...having said that if my opinion counts for anything I believe the S2000 is a much better car than anything on your original list. A great place to start...

  Here's one way to gage your final decision.Plug in the old ps2 and do a couple laps with the stock cars on the nurburgring nordschlief course and see which car gives you the best time in three laps...it may not be the best way to judge a car but the handling dynamics are close enough to give you a ball park idea of which direction you'd possibly like to go...My $.02

  it takes skill to curse as fluently as I do

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  Nov. 23, 2010 11:08 p.m. Luke SuperDork

  Miata has never been a more appropriate answer. Seriously, it makes more sense than everything else on your original list.

  And if you didn't want a Miata because everyone else has a Miata, skeze's S2000 suggestion would be a fine choice.

  "Just as a proverb says, one should always ny escort prepare for a rainy day." - GRM canoe

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  Nov. 23, 2010 11:10 p.m. friedgreencorrado SuperDork

  Tac wrote:

  ansonivan wrote: Best Entry Level Performance Car? The one you already own.

  An SUV?

  The overwhelming response for the Miata, is that mainly based on the cost?

  Not at all. Yeah, most of the public culture hype is that a Miata's "..an MG that actually starts on a cold morning.." (and yeah, Mazda seized upon that crap in their advertising, because they wanted to sell cars), but they're really that good (for a low-powered car). They have a fantastic balance, and a great feel through the controls. And they don't seem to lose either when they're modified. I've only ever driven an NA, but I've heard from other people that they just got better at each re-design.

  How can it be a midlife crisis, when I've driven sportscars my entire life?

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  Nov. 23, 2010 11:16 p.m. friedgreencorrado SuperDork

  Luke wrote: Miata has never been a more appropriate answer. Seriously, it makes more sense than everything else on your original list. And if you didn't want a Miata because everyone else has a Miata, skeze's S2000 suggestion would be a fine choice.

  Love the S2000, driven one (only at an autoX, tho), want one..but I'm still saying that for starting to run a racetrack, you want something with less power. Slow cars teach you to use technique, rather than horsepower. You can take that technique into a higher powered car later on, and be even faster..and safer. IMO, start small, practice a lot, and then move up.

  How can it be a midlife crisis, when I've driven sportscars my entire life?

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  Nov. 23, 2010 11:17 p.m. friedgreencorrado SuperDork

  duetto_67 wrote: if you have to 'get' something, get something light. most of the cars on your list will go through tires very quickly at speed. spend half your budget or less on the vehicle, save some bucks for tires/travel/fees/other costs.

  This, too!

  How can it be a midlife crisis, when I've driven sportscars my entire life?

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  Nov. 23, 2010 11:30 p.m. Racer1ab Reader

  I think we need to know a bit more about the intended use of the car too. Is this going to be solely for track days, or are you going to use this as a fair-weather daily driver?
  

  If the amount of commuting and street driving greatly outweighs track time, pick something you are really going to be happy with.

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  Nov. 23, 2010 11:35 p.m. Rufledt Reader

  RX8! (i'm not biased, but, uh, don't check my garage) You never said it had to be reliable Very good handling, not really enough power to be uncontrolable, but in your price range you're looking at a series 1 which has some small reliablity problems... What i'm trying to say is, for an excellent handling rear drive car that won't get away from you, has lots of racing success, is practical for the track and expenses, and is fun to drive, then you're best option is a Mazda miata.

  "A dog oversteers, which is more fun than an understeering hyeena, so you want a mazda mx5 because it's rear wheel drive."

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  Nov. 24, 2010 12:00 a.m. FlightService Reader

  Of the list you listed I would personally go with the Boxster, but given your list let me throw an oddball in there.

  Chrysler Crossfire = hardtop SLK with a manual.

  but Miata is my first answer.

  Italian cars are like Italian woman, expensive and only beautiful on the outside.

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  Nov. 24, 2010 12:13 a.m. MrBenjamonkey HalfDork

  Honestly I don't think it matters much beyond these considerations.

  1. Is it reliable?
  2. Is it lightweight?

  You can make something good out of almost any car. The only things you can't easily make are lightweight and a basically reliable drivetrain. Pick something you like and cut your budget in half is what I vote for. Spend the rest making whatever it is exactly what you want.
  

  Oh, and I thought of a #3. Don't get an AWD. All the AWD's I've driven are so forgiving they let you get away with stupid stuff, ergo, they are a great way to pick up bad habits.

  So, for 5 to 9k: Celica GT, final generation. MR2 of any generation. Sentra SER Honda EF/EH DC5 Integra Neon 3rd Generation Camaro/Firebird (gutted) Miata 2nd Generation Supra 1st/2nd Generation RX7 Hyundai Tiburon/Scoupe E36 Porsche 924/944 Any other thing that catches your eye.

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  Nov. 24, 2010 1:14 a.m. Lugnut HalfDork

  I'll +1 the Miata idea. For a real entry level performance car, $8k should buy a FINISHED track prepared car, not just a street car.

  I started DEing with an '85 Bertone X1/9. You want to learn about car control, learn on a car with 78 horsepower.

  Keep a Miata in mind, but forget every other one of these choices. Go buy a race car that is already prepped. Buy an old GTI IT car, a Spec Miata, a Spec 944, a Spec Focus, a Showroom Stock Neon, something like that.

  I am gathering from your post that you are looking for a track car, not a double-duty car. If you really want to track your street car, then there is no need to buy anything other than some brake pads and some track time. Take your car that you're driving now. Hell, I had mechanical issues during a 4-day track weekend, so I rented a Taurus and drove it the rest of the event - and even that was fun!

  I would not count anything in your list as a beginner car. You want something that will teach you good habits, not harshly punish your mistakes, survive blasting all day long at maximum RPM and maximum brake temp, save you if you crash, and if you do crash, write it off. I don't think a 10-19k car will do most of those things.

  I am a King Prawn.

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  Nov. 24, 2010 1:24 a.m. skeze New Reader

  FlightService wrote: Chrysler Crossfire = hardtop SLK with a manual.

  This ^^^ Cheap as all hell. that mechanical wing is an issue though, not light, expensive tires . but unique. one of my favorite modern cars

  it takes skill to curse as fluently as I do

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  Nov. 24, 2010 4:25 a.m. ArizonaGT New Reader

  E30s can be pretty fast gutted, with a chip to bump up the redline to 6500+...and some balls

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