Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » AWD/4wd Manual transmissions behind LSx? 1 2

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  Oct. 13, 2011 5:01 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

  Are there any 4wd or AWD manual transmissions you can put behind an LSx/Chevy Vortec truck motor?

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  Oct. 13, 2011 5:09 p.m. Toyman01 SuperDork

  Truck transmissions should fit the bill. Maybe not the LSX, but certainly the Vortec engines. As far as a AWD performance transmission, not sure.

  I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me.

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  Oct. 13, 2011 5:10 p.m. Ranger50 Dork

  4L60E

  "Never trust an intelligent man with no money to play fair."

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  Oct. 13, 2011 5:22 p.m. Conquest351 HalfDork

  I like where this is going...

  When you can leave black marks from the exit of one corner to the entry of the next, THEN you have enough horsepower!

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  Oct. 13, 2011 5:25 p.m. Twin_Cam SuperDork

  Doesn't the drivetrain in the H2 feature a LSx-based motor? That's where I'd start. Oh, and what is this going into?

  Edit: Right, manual. Probably not available on the H2, the ultimate poseur vehicle.

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  Oct. 13, 2011 5:34 p.m. NGTD Dork

  Manuals were available in H3's - would probably still handle an LSx, but you also have a transfer case to deal with if you pick a truck.

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  Oct. 13, 2011 5:35 p.m. bigdaddylee82 Reader

  700R4, 4L60E, 4L80E, TH350, TH400, NV3500, NV4500, SM465, all have 4x4/AWD versions/tail-housings/adapters available in stock forum, and all already fit/can be easily made to fit those engines.

  I've seen folks make a T-56 work with a Syclone/Typhoon AWD transfer case too, a lot more involved of a process though.

  Are you wanting selective 4x4 or all the time 4x4/AWD? Do you already have a transfer case picked out?

  • Lee
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  Oct. 13, 2011 5:44 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

  In reply to bigdaddylee82:

  I haven't picked a transfer case yet. I think I prefer an AWD with some sort of limited slip. More on road bias than off road.

  Just one zuccinni as i get there property Vibram all 5 ring finger shoes and boots anticipating everyone uncover.

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  Oct. 13, 2011 5:51 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

  Lol-I love this place:
  

  GRM has of course talked about this before

  Bryce-If you read this, can you see if you can find the adapter on the rockland standard gear site. I can seem to find it.

  Just one zuccinni as i get there property Vibram all 5 ring finger shoes and boots anticipating everyone uncover.

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  Oct. 13, 2011 5:55 p.m. stumpmj Dork

  Use a 5 cylinder Audi transmission from a car with a turbo. A couple of people have built LSX 5000's and 200's. Grab the rest of the drivetrain while you're in there too.

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  Oct. 13, 2011 5:57 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

  stumpmj wrote: Use a 5 cylinder Audi transmission from a car with a turbo. A couple of people have built LSX 5000's and 200's. Grab the rest of the drivetrain while you're in there too.

  Is that a classic north/south transmission with a transfer case hanging off of the back like a truck or does it have the front diff integrated into the case with the halfshafts hanging off of the bellhousing?

  Just one zuccinni as i get there property Vibram all 5 ring finger shoes and boots anticipating everyone uncover.

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  Oct. 13, 2011 6:08 p.m. bigdaddylee82 Reader

  Full time AWD would be something like the Borg Warner 1372 that was in the Syclone. Most of the later model Borg Warner units (4482, 4485, etc.) use "traction control" i.e. it's an open diff case that uses computer controlled braking to control which wheels get the power. Not real conducive to homebrew "GRM" AWD.
  

  The the New Venture NV120 in the Trailblazer SS, and I think Silverado SS too, is a single speed AWD case that uses "clutches" to distribute power to either end. It's torque biased something like 33% front 67% rear normally, but can be as much as 45/55% or as little as 25/75%.

  The entire drive train out of the SS Trailbazer is pretty trick. Front axle actually goes through the oil pan to help keep the ride height down. Too bad it's an automatic.

  • Lee
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  Oct. 13, 2011 6:24 p.m. turboswede SuperDork

  The Audi 5-speed transaxle is longitudinal with the front diff integrated into the case. Rear diff output is via the rear of the transaxle.

  The FWD version of this transaxle was used in the rear of the 924/944 and of course early Audi's.

  There is a 6-speed version behind the later Audi V8's and other larger Audi's. Europe got FWD only 6-speeds while the US received the Quattro versions.

  I'd probably put it behind an LSx, with it mid-mounted and the rear drive output run to the front via a long driveline run through a 1:1 transfer case. I saw a Lambo kit do something like this and it was pretty damned cool.

  "I can pretty much guarantee that when you were in both lanes sideways you didn't have your turn signal on." - engineerd

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  Oct. 13, 2011 6:25 p.m. Javelin SuperDork

  Hmmm....

  FYI, AMC developed the T-5 for it's AWD SX/4 Eagle and Spirit cars, so there's a lot of full-time AWD cases that can bolt to the tal of the T-5, replacing the normal tailshaft. It might not work on a T56, but you can beef up a T5 enough for an LSx with aftermarket goodies, and the bellhousings exist. That'd be an unholy drivetrain though...

  GM motor>Ford gears>AMC case>Jeep AWD box

  I'm assuming it's going into something that's none of those, like a Jag or a BiTurbo.

  Michael Pinto - 73 AMC Javelin 360 / GoKart / 86 944 Sport / 01 Grand Prix GT / 06 Mazda5 M5

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  Oct. 13, 2011 7:35 p.m. bluej Dork

  Javelin wrote: Hmmm.... FYI, AMC developed the T-5 for it's AWD SX/4 Eagle and Spirit cars, so there's a lot of full-time AWD cases that can bolt to the tal of the T-5, replacing the normal tailshaft. It might not work on a T56, but you can beef up a T5 enough for an LSx with aftermarket goodies, and the bellhousings exist. That'd be an unholy drivetrain though... GM motor>Ford gears>AMC case>Jeep AWD box I'm assuming it's going into something that's none of those, like a Jag or a BiTurbo.

  Miata w/ e30 wheels. Then the grm webserver goes nova and turns into a black hole.

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  Oct. 13, 2011 8:36 p.m. RossD SuperDork

  Novak Adaptors has lots of good info on their website. They sell adaptors too; more for jeeps however but still good info.

  00100001

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  Oct. 13, 2011 8:47 p.m. thunderzy New Reader

  My 04 silverado SS is awd. Take a look at that setup and replicate it.

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  Oct. 13, 2011 8:59 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

  thunderzy wrote: My 04 silverado SS is awd. Take a look at that setup and replicate it.

  The automatic setup isn't that hard to come by. Getting a high horsepower AWD auto setup gets a little more difficult and getting an AWD Manual transmission setup borders on impossible.

  Just one zuccinni as i get there property Vibram all 5 ring finger shoes and boots anticipating everyone uncover.

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  Oct. 13, 2011 9:29 p.m. HappyAndy HalfDork

  Javelin wrote: Hmmm.... FYI, AMC developed the T-5 for it's AWD SX/4 Eagle and Spirit cars, so there's a lot of full-time AWD cases that can bolt to the tal of the T-5, replacing the normal tailshaft. It might not work on a T56, but you can beef up a T5 enough for an LSx with aftermarket goodies, and the bellhousings exist. That'd be an unholy drivetrain though... GM motor>Ford gears>AMC case>Jeep AWD box I'm assuming it's going into something that's none of those, like a Jag or a BiTurbo.

  Ooooh this concoction in a late seventies or early eighties. Jag would be the E36 M3!
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  Oct. 13, 2011 9:39 p.m. Rob_Mopar Dork

  Using truck parts, a New Venture 242 transfer case behind a NV3550 5-speed. I believe you need to swap the input shaft from a NP231 transfer case into the 242 to make it work.

  I believe Chevy used the NV3550 behind some 4.3 V6's. Maybe behind some of the small 8's as well.

  Well, everybody knows that the bird is the word!

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  Oct. 13, 2011 9:42 p.m. Streetwiseguy Dork

  Rob_Mopar wrote: Using truck parts, a New Venture 242 transfer case behind a NV3550 5-speed. I believe you need to swap the input shaft from a NP231 transfer case into the 242 to make it work. I believe Chevy used the NV3550 behind some 4.3 V6's. Maybe behind some of the small 8's as well.

  My 2k Silverado 4.8 4x4 has it.

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  Oct. 13, 2011 9:45 p.m. admc58 Reader

  Astro & Bravada AWD are 70/30 split systems behind the 4.3 and then there are the AWD full sized vans that use a version of the same thing with a better/stronger trans.

  Not that I have ever thought of this before....

  "Too much horsepower, It's only a concept"

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  Oct. 14, 2011 9:32 a.m. Schmidlap HalfDork

  It's not a Chevy, but you might be able to make it work. The Dodge Charger/Chrysler 300 are available with AWD behind the V8, but only with an automatic. I assume the transfer case from the Charger could be made to bolt up to a manual trans, though making an adapter to go from a Chevy transmission output shaft to the Chrysler transfer case input shaft may get expensive/difficult.

  The AWD in the 2007/08 Charger (according to Wikipedia) is a full time 40/60% F/R split based on the Mercedes 4Matic system. 2009 and later are a BorgWarner torque on demand that only engage the front wheels when the rears slip.

  Here's a pic showing the layout. I don't know if this is the Mercedes or the BW system, but it looks pretty compact.

  

  Bob

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  Oct. 14, 2011 9:45 a.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

  The astro AWD transfer case works really well behind a 4L60e and can be adapted to the more rugged 4L80e for an automatic transmission solution.

  I am familiar with multiple easy options for automatic transmission solutions but not any using a Manual transmission.

  The closest I have come is the RSG solution referenced by Nashco in the linked post where an adapter is used behind a T56, and Javelins solution using a potpourri of parts involving T5's and AMC stuff.

  Anyone know of anything else?

  Just one zuccinni as i get there property Vibram all 5 ring finger shoes and boots anticipating everyone uncover.

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  Oct. 14, 2011 9:48 a.m. Ranger50 Dork

  Eh. The MagnaSteyr 140 in the LX bodies is marginal at best. The computer has a huge retard, figuratively and literally, to cut the power to make all that Mercedes E36 M3 survive behind a torquey V8.

  "Never trust an intelligent man with no money to play fair."

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