Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Another van thread, specifically mid-late 90's fords 1 2

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  Aug. 19, 2010 7:59 p.m. paulmpetrun New Reader

  Well it pains me to look at fords, I have always been a gm guy as far as trucks/vans go. But I can't find any decent deals on late 90's early 2k's chevy/gmc full size conversions. I know summer & traveling and such, but I am impatient and want/need a full size van now.

  So tell me all the bad/good points of late 90's fords with the tritan engine. Do they drive as horribly as ford trucks and chew up front tires, ball joints etc...? I said I am a chevy guy but have owned my share of ford trucks as well, so blue oval die hards please don't hate me.

  What do they use, wear items, trouble spots, how are the tritan engines, etc....

  I do want a full size conversion van, not an astro, and it must be a 350/351ish engine, no v6's.

  Thanks Paul

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  Aug. 19, 2010 8:01 p.m. EvanB Dork

  Dodge is the way to go

  

  Formerly jdmae92

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  Aug. 19, 2010 8:10 p.m. grimmelshanks Reader

  dont get the tritan, go diesel. if its gonna be doing any sort of work, the tritan is just not practical, its all horsepower no torque

  pinion shaft? uh-oh

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  Aug. 19, 2010 8:34 p.m. Junkyard_Dog HalfDork

  EvanB wrote: Dodge is the way to go

  Dajiban!!!!

  I love going to the Pull-a-Part because the dollar admission is cheaper than most car shows and you almost always see cooler cars.

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  Aug. 19, 2010 8:39 p.m. Woody SuperDork

  Is it wrong to love this?

  EvanB wrote: Dodge is the way to go

  Unleash the relentless power of her 1400cc Quadrozontal engine...

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  Aug. 19, 2010 8:53 p.m. EvanB Dork

  Not at all

  Formerly jdmae92

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  Aug. 19, 2010 8:57 p.m. Toyman01 Dork

  Triton engines aren't bad. I love my 5.4, but there are some known issues. They do eat coils. In ten years I have replaced half of them. The are a pain to replace because Ford decided to mount the fuel rail right on top of them. They also had a problem with spitting plugs and the threads that hold them out of the heads. I haven't experienced that yet. They aren't real big on low end torque. The power band is higher in the rpm range. I pull a 20' enclosed trailer with mine and you can forget overdrive. With a flat trailer overdrive is usable as long as the hills aren't too steep. As far as eating tires, don't let the local tire shop touch the front end. Get Ford to do it. They aren't much more expensive, but they are used to the peculiarities of a twin I-beam front end. Between personal and company vans I have 5 of them. I get between 50 and 90 thousand miles out of a set of tires depending on the tire manufacturer. Rotate them regularly and don't use crap tires. If you get a conversion van, I don't recommend a high top. Driving them can be like carrying a sheet of plywood on a windy beach. No Fun. Stick with the low tops. Don't dis the 6 cylinders too bad. I have three of them. They tow better than you think and get much better gas mileage. The 6s get 15+ (the 02 up to 20), the 5.4 more like 13 and I have seen 7.2. You will run the 6 cylinders harder than the tritons, but they will take it. I would also reconsider getting a conversion van. Everything in mine not made by Ford and added by the conversion company is starting to go to pieces. Paint is peeling off the running boards and the fiberglass roof, power seats have shorted and the leather upholstery is falling apart. All in all I wish I hadn't gotten the conversion.

  If toast always lands butter-side down, and cats always land on their feet, what happens if you strap toast on the back of a cat and drop it? - Steven Wright

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  Aug. 19, 2010 11:00 p.m. patgizz SuperDork

  hold out for a chevy, the vortec 350 or any of the ls engines will chew up and spit out the 5.4, while it is spitting spark plugs at you

  John Brown wrote:"Safety" is my second middle name, it's right after "Screw".

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  Aug. 20, 2010 12:16 a.m. curtis73 HalfDork

  while I agree that the later Ford engines have ignition issues, don't sweat it. As a foreman for fleet maintenance for a utility company, hands down, go with an earlier ford without the coil-on-plug. I had several of those in service with over 300k and they didn't even smoke.

  The chevy 350 truly holds my heart, especially the Vortec, but they are based on an engine design that was developed in 1953. The chevy will make more torque and power all day long, but my personal daily driver is a 98 F150 4.6L with 250k on it, and since I bought it with 120k I have replaced the following:

  -oil, oil filter, gasoline.

  The non-COP (coil-on-plug) 4.6 and 5.4 are paradigms of longevity.... and this comes from a die-hard GM guy.

  I'm bringing sexy back

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  Aug. 20, 2010 12:18 a.m. integraguy Dork

  There aren't a lot of conversion vans sold in my area (Memphis), but I'll bet 90% of them are Fords. There are 1 or 2 I've seen lately on local lots...these aren't "my cup of tea" so I know nothing about them. I'd imagine the rest of the market is split almost evenly between Dodge and Chevy, but I'd avoid the Dodge. The last of the full size Dodge vans had problems with the rear axles. The company I worked for had several and they all developed a really bad howl at speeds from 35-40mph. As I understand it, the angle of the gears inside the rear diff were "off" from the factory....they all suffer from it eventually. The other reason to avoid Dodge? They stopped building them. Well, I suppose some folks might consider that to be a plus, since it means if you find one it will be dirt cheap.

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  Aug. 20, 2010 1:43 a.m. BobOfTheFuture HalfDork

  Ive got the earlier 4.6. Toyman is right about the conversion parts, they blow. having a running board fall of at highway speed is no fun for you, or the next guy. (stepped on it too to get it, so ???) He is also spot on the for alignments.

  The car is well into its life just short of 200k miles, and so far the only big item was the oil pan rusted through from the outside and was leaking slightly. not too bad of a change. That said, something about the auto on the van and the 4.6 just doesnt mix. it doesnt shift when/where you want it too. its irratating. If it shifted right, it would be adequate, but how it is, it feels doggy

  Formerly MowogBob

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  Aug. 20, 2010 2:15 a.m. MrBenjamonkey Reader

  This.

  Tough, efficient, huge and it's a deisel.

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  Aug. 20, 2010 2:21 a.m. Mikey52_1 Reader

  MrBenjamonkey wrote: This. Tough, efficient, huge and it's a deisel.

  and spendy...and rare, in the passenger versions

  Mike

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  Aug. 20, 2010 7:28 a.m. paulmpetrun New Reader

  curtis73 wrote: since I bought it with 120k I have replaced the following: -oil, oil filter, gasoline. The non-COP (coil-on-plug) 4.6 and 5.4 are paradigms of longevity.... and this comes from a die-hard GM guy.

  Thanks to everyone for the replys. The hard part for me would be accepting an engine that spits plugs and threads at ya! While this may be an easy fix(well comparatively) in a truck, a van would be a nightmare

  I am unfortunately familiar with the lack of quality of the conversion parts. My favorite was the running boards on my 03' Chevy w/explorer conversion, they were held on by self tapping screws. Not just around the wheel wells but the main supports too

  Between a vortec 350 that warps the intake manifold gaskets or a plug popping tritan, I think I will have to hold out for the Chebby... I am just to chicken to try and learn something new on something that can be damn near impossible to work on.

  While the dajibans are saweeet looking, after my last ram truck(a 96' 4x4), I will NEVAR own another dodge. Fool me once

  Thanks all Paul

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  Aug. 20, 2010 7:57 a.m. MrBenjamonkey Reader

  In reply to paulmpetrun: Have you considered this?

  
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  Aug. 20, 2010 8:45 a.m. patgizz SuperDork

  best thing about "1955 technology" in the 350 is you can buy things like an oil pump for under $10

  i own a 4.6 ford, the thing is sad in a fullsize car let alone a van or truck. i'd love to have one in something that weighs around 2,000 lbs. then the higher rpm operation would actually pull the vehicle instead of just make more noise before shifting.

  John Brown wrote:"Safety" is my second middle name, it's right after "Screw".

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  Aug. 20, 2010 12:27 p.m. pinchvalve SuperDork

  paulmpetrun wrote: after my last ram truck(a 96' 4x4), I will NEVAR own another dodge. Fool me once

  My Father is a life-long van driver, and has the same opinion on Dodge Vans. We were stranded many times by our Plymouth Voyager, and it has been GM ever since.
  

  (and when I say Voyager, I mean this baby, not the minivan:)

  "Don't Sweat the Petty Things." Yes, and Don't Pet the Sweaty Things.

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  Aug. 20, 2010 12:29 p.m. pinchvalve SuperDork

  For comparison, here is a stock GM G-Van from the same era:

  "Don't Sweat the Petty Things." Yes, and Don't Pet the Sweaty Things.

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  Aug. 20, 2010 12:30 p.m. pinchvalve SuperDork

  And don't get me started on our Voyager III...

  Worst idea ever!

  "Don't Sweat the Petty Things." Yes, and Don't Pet the Sweaty Things.

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  Aug. 20, 2010 12:39 p.m. CarKid1989 Dork

  patgizz wrote: hold out for a chevy, the vortec 350 or any of the ls engines will chew up and spit out the 5.4, while it is spitting spark plugs at you

  we have a 2002 Chevy express 1500 with the Vortec in it. 112,000 miles. no problems with it. Its pretty quick for what it is. Tranny will down shift when you romp on it and it wails which surprised me haha. i have driven it since i got my license and its a great van. Interiors seems a bit cheap (door panels, seat levers, oh and power windows) but its all good.

  Comfy, can get like high teens MPG outta it too.

  From cleveland to dayton ohio with 7 people in he car doing 75-80ish we still got 14 MPG. not bad by my books for a brick.

  Buy the chevy in other words. Only get the factory conversion van if any.

  http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=268655655&dealer_id=64603429&car_year=1994&engine=&fuel=&lastStartYear=1981&sort_type=priceDESC&systime=&default_sort=priceDESC&drive=&style_flag=1&bo

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  Aug. 20, 2010 2:58 p.m. Ian F Dork

  MrBenjamonkey wrote: This. -Dodge-Sprinter-Cargo-Van-2 Tough, efficient, huge and it's a deisel.

  Huge? Yes. Effiecient? Yes. Tough? Ehh... I've heard numerous complaints about transmission issues with the Sprinter. Not to mention they're stupid expensive to buy used w/ a zillion miles on them. The thought of having to go to a M-B dealer for parts makes my c-card melt.

  IMHO, I would not even consider a non-raised roof version ,having owned one and spent too much time in a low-roof conversion van. The additional head roof is a god-send when it comes to camping and hauling crap. I would gut all of the conversion stuff behind the front seats anyway and re-fit it for my needs (camping & stealth hauling).

  Diesel conversion vans are exceptionally rare since most conversion vans are built on 1/2 ton chassis and diesels are 3/4 ton and larger. You'll see them once in awhile, but they are built to order. On the plus side, if you hanker for a 4x4 van, there's a good chance it'll be a diesel. Ditto if you want an extended-a$$ conversion van.

  The simple fact remains: unless you plan to drive the van/truck a bucket-load of miles, the premium you'll pay for a diesel over a gas engine will pay for a lot of gas. Not to mention the repair & service costs are far less. I swear most of the people posting these recommendations have not lived with a diesel as a p/t use vehicle. I have (and currently do, unfortunately).

  Ford conversion vans do seem the most popular. I lean towards Ford trucks in general, but bull-sh1t brand-loyalties aside, buy the cleanest/newest/lowest mileage one you can find, regardless of the badge on the grill. Due to shear percentages, it'll likely be a Ford although a former coworker found a nice GM van to haul around his wife and 4 kids and he's been happy with it.

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  Aug. 20, 2010 3:18 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  I agree.. buy the best of either Chevy or Ford. I have driven and my family have owned one or the other in guise for years. I also third NOT buying a mopar van.

  During the Sound Check, nobody can year you scream

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  Aug. 21, 2010 10:01 p.m. LopRacer New Reader

  Issue with the spitting plug triton can be overcome by properly installing the plugs at the correct torque and using anti sieze but you have to do it BEFORE the damage has been done, we have a fleet of 5.4 tritons and only one has spit plugs but it's spit half of them. The Powerstroke diesel in a van body is a nightmare to service as half the engine is vitually inaccesible and if you have to do a head gasket you will have to likely raise the body off the frame to do it.

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  Aug. 21, 2010 11:08 p.m. MrBenjamonkey Reader

  Ian F wrote:

  MrBenjamonkey wrote: This. -Dodge-Sprinter-Cargo-Van-2 Tough, efficient, huge and it's a deisel.

  Huge? Yes. Effiecient? Yes. Tough? Ehh... I've heard numerous complaints about transmission issues with the Sprinter. Not to mention they're stupid expensive to buy used w/ a zillion miles on them. The thought of having to go to a M-B dealer for parts makes my c-card melt.

  IMHO, I would not even consider a non-raised roof version ,having owned one and spent too much time in a low-roof conversion van. The additional head roof is a god-send when it comes to camping and hauling crap. I would gut all of the conversion stuff behind the front seats anyway and re-fit it for my needs (camping & stealth hauling).

  Diesel conversion vans are exceptionally rare since most conversion vans are built on 1/2 ton chassis and diesels are 3/4 ton and larger. You'll see them once in awhile, but they are built to order. On the plus side, if you hanker for a 4x4 van, there's a good chance it'll be a diesel. Ditto if you want an extended-a$$ conversion van.

  The simple fact remains: unless you plan to drive the van/truck a bucket-load of miles, the premium you'll pay for a diesel over a gas engine will pay for a lot of gas. Not to mention the repair & service costs are far less. I swear most of the people posting these recommendations have not lived with a diesel as a p/t use vehicle. I have (and currently do, unfortunately).

  Ford conversion vans do seem the most popular. I lean towards Ford trucks in general, but bull-sh1t brand-loyalties aside, buy the cleanest/newest/lowest mileage one you can find, regardless of the badge on the grill. Due to shear percentages, it'll likely be a Ford although a former coworker found a nice GM van to haul around his wife and 4 kids and he's been happy with it.

  I've lived with a 6.5 Chevy TD and a Cummins 5sp Dodge. We bought both of them used and they went for a long time with minimal maintenance and much better mileage. The Chevy is currently flirting with 400k miles. That said, if the van is going to be a part time proposition racking up 800 miles a year, then the extra cost is definitely not worth it over a gas motor.

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  Aug. 22, 2010 6:05 a.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  I have driven both gas and diesel vans.. I would never want to own a gas powered one. The torque and economy of the diesel is just such a sweet siren song to a long distance hauler

  During the Sound Check, nobody can year you scream

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