Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » 3rd Gen Camaros 1 2

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  July 2, 2011 10:18 a.m. Drewsifer Dork

  So GRM help me out here. I've recently become interested in 3rd gen Camaros again. I go through phases like this, but I wanted to get some input. How difficult is it to put get rid of the 305 and put a 350? Or is it worth putting some go fast bits on the 305? I have a slight plan in my head of how I'd like to build it, but I wanted to see what you guys think of this.

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  July 2, 2011 11:08 a.m. donalson SuperDork

  I don't know a ton but from what i've found going 305 to 350 is about as easy as it can be... unbolt everything on the outside of the engine and bolt to the 350... differences are all internal... not sure if the ECU chip is different... but if so I know GM has more chips for that obd1 era ecu then about anything else... things get a little more problematic when you go with the vortec heads (different intake manifold bolt pattern as I recall)

  as for hopping up the 305... i've always read theres no real point... due to the small bore they don't respond well to mods... I speculate that the real reason in everyone saying don't bother on the 305 is that the 350 is such a simple swap and they respond very well to mods...

  one day I want to play in the SBC world... the s10 would prob have been the ideal place for me to start but whatever :)...

  "Just because you can think outside of the box, it doesn't mean we are going to let you out of it." ~ John Brown

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  July 2, 2011 11:12 a.m. rebelgtp SuperDork

  I believe the 305 uses the same mounts and all as the 350. There were 3rd gens with the 350 though they all came from the factory with autos. It is well worth going to a 350 or even finding yourself some sort of LSx engine to go in it. I actually have my eyes on a couple around here in town to do a build. I have a 355 in my shop waiting for a home and a TPI setup for it as well. I have a soft spot for the 80's muscle cars guess that's why I am building my Olds.

  To expand on what was said previously the ecu chips are different though I believe they can be reflashed for the larger injectors for a 350. You can also find used chips on ebay for cheap I got one for $35.

  "Well, my time of not taking you seriously is coming to a middle."

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  July 2, 2011 11:46 a.m. mblommel Reader

  In reply to Drewsifer:

  I thinking growing the required Mullet will harder than swapping from a 305 to 350.

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  July 2, 2011 12:13 p.m. Drewsifer Dork

  mblommel wrote: In reply to Drewsifer: I thinking growing the required Mullet will harder than swapping from a 305 to 350.

  But I have to keep my hair short!

  Some friends of mine mocked me for saying I wanted to do a 3rd gen Camaro. They tried to tell me the F-body was a bad platform. But I knew better. And it's pretty easy to find LT1 or LS1s in junk yards. This plan just might come together (if I can find a 3rd Gen for a good price).

  Better to be a racer for a moment than spectator for a life time.

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  July 2, 2011 1:14 p.m. pres589 Dork

  Getting a true dual exhaust under a 3rd gen is supposed to be hard. And the chassis is kind of floppy. Subframe connectors helps with the last problem. The first, I don't know what route is best, SLP made some decent exhaust parts to deal with the issues and keep the car street legal.
  

  And I don't like the seat bottom / floor / steering wheel / pedals distances, feels like I'm sitting on the floor.

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  July 2, 2011 2:24 p.m. tuna55 SuperDork

  pres589 wrote: Getting a true dual exhaust under a 3rd gen is supposed to be hard.

  True, so run a single 3.5" - it's nearly as good anyway and way easier to route.

  pres589 wrote: And I don't like the seat bottom / floor / steering wheel / pedals distances, feels like I'm sitting on the floor.

  I love that!
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  July 2, 2011 2:26 p.m. BoostedBrandon Reader

  pres589 wrote: And I don't like the seat bottom / floor / steering wheel / pedals distances, feels like I'm sitting on the floor.

  That's because you are.

  Later cars had bodies that were glued together instead of welded, and makes them slightly stiffer.

  the 90-92 cars had a better gauge cluster IMO, and 91 and 92 had ground effects with scoops in them, also better looking IMO.

  The cars built in Van Nuys, CA used water-based paint and after 10 years or so began to break up and chip off leaving bare metal in that area, especially with t-tops.

  The TPI was designed around the 305 engine, designed to boost it's torque output with very long runners. It works okay on the 350, but they tend to run out of steam at around 4800 RPM.

  Personally, a third gen Camaro is my favorite car. It was my first car, and I still got mine. Yeah they get the mullet stigma, but they're simple to work on, can give you great performance in corners and a straight line, and can be very good looking cars with the right mods.

  OTOH, I hate fourth gens with a passion. WHY does the windshield cover THAT MUCH of the engine?

  Buy it, drive it, love it. More info at Thirdgen.org

  Turbos are like ketchup, they make everything better!

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  July 2, 2011 4:34 p.m. Drewsifer Dork

  @BoostedBrandon,

  Thanks for the info. That's pretty much exactly what I want to do. I've always liked the look of 3rd gens (later ones but still). I guess I'm on the hunt for a 3rd gen now.

  Better to be a racer for a moment than spectator for a life time.

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  July 2, 2011 5:23 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

  I always liked the looks of the 3rd gen. When I was in HS, a friend of mine had a blue firebird.. it was a fun car

  Be careful of your words, for someone will agree with them. Be careful of your conduct, for someone will imitate it. -Leih Tsu

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  July 3, 2011 8:25 a.m. patgizz SuperDork

  my only bit of wisdom - i've had one and worked on countless - if you want an ls1 f body go buy a 4th gen, preferably a ws6 trans am because 4th gen camaros are ugly.

  other than that, if you want a good all around car with a crapload of aftermarket that you can drop a 350, 383, 400 into with almost zero effort, 3rd gens are not a bad place to start.

  When I grow up, I want to be just like Colt McCoy

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  July 3, 2011 10:08 a.m. internetautomart SuperDork

  I'd start with a firebird formula rather than a camaro.
  lighter weight with same options, came with the performance suspension, was available already 350ized. PLUS I like the interior better. I have had both.

  my blog with coupon codes: http://internetautosupply.com/blog/

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  July 3, 2011 10:28 a.m. Drewsifer Dork

  patgizz said: my only bit of wisdom - i've had one and worked on countless - if you want an ls1 f body go buy a 4th gen, preferably a ws6 trans am because 4th gen camaros are ugly.

  internetautomart said: I'd start with a firebird formula rather than a camaro. lighter weight with same options, came with the performance suspension, was available already 350ized. PLUS I like the interior better. I have had both.

  Wise words, that I'm unfortunately not going to heed . In 3rd Gens I prefer Camaros over Firebrids. In 4th Gens I would get a Trans Am, but I actually want to do some work on this car. I know I'm probably getting into a bigger project than I think, but it should be fun. Plus it'll be a good place for me to start working on cars again.

  Better to be a racer for a moment than spectator for a life time.

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  July 3, 2011 10:01 p.m. belteshazzar SuperDork

  what could be cooler than having a car that said I ROC on the side of it.

  spending money I don't have to buy parts I don't need to impress people I don't know

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  July 3, 2011 10:06 p.m. Trans_Maro Dork

  Ignorant

  Rednecks

  Out

  Cruisin'

  Sometimes life leaves a hundred dollar bill on your dresser, and you don't realize until later that it's because it screwed you.

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  July 3, 2011 10:36 p.m. neon4891 SuperDork

  Murderer's car

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  July 4, 2011 1:20 a.m. alex SuperDork

  Italian Retards Out Cruising is how I always heard it. Must be a regional thing.

  (I keed, I keed. For the record, I'm developing a weak spot for 3rd gen F bodies myself.)

  The only two things in life that make it worth livin' are guitars that tune good and firm feelin' women.

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  July 4, 2011 2:36 a.m. Grizz Reader

  Remember, dead cow on the roof is an extra 50 hp.

  so get a red(10 hp) camaro with empty beer cans in the trunk(30 hp), grow a sweet ass mullet(200 hp) and raid a farm every once in a while and you'll have an extra 290 hp.

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  July 4, 2011 8:00 a.m. Apexcarver SuperDork

  Been working on a few of them a friend has.

  VERY floppy. (and I come from SN95 mustangs), the ergonomics are either gonna be good or horrible depending on your preferences. Its kinda legs flat out in front of you seating position.
  

  The exhaust routing is indeed awkward. GM didnt seem to be thinking about routing the exhaust when designing the floorpan.

  Later IROCs have the swaybar and springs you want. To get better then the factory IROC springs, you will most likely be looking for a Ground Control setup.

  I hear there is some chassis steering brace called a "wonderbar" that you want to get. (I think my friends car has it, dont know much on how much it helps)

  350 is a straight drop in. I think the computers even cross exchange (may need to be chipped, not positive) If buying one to LS swap, go ahead and get a 4th gen as you will spend lots on the parts (look at car-part for 4th gen T56 prices)
  

  Manual trans cars are somewhat rare. you will find that 9/10 seem to be automatics (at least). this is their least endearing quality to me.
  

  The factory 350's ONLY came with automatic trans's. I dont know if the WC T-5 is up to it for sure, so you may have fun times finding a cheap manual trans to back it up.

  Speaking of backing it up. They have weak rear axles. Aparrently, if you go much over 400hp/tq they will break pretty easily. Upgrades arent cheap either. Seems the price to upgrade the rear can be >$1200 (or get a supply of factory rears and do the blow n' swap) (if you know a cheap solution or have a dana 3rd gen rear for sale, I might just have a buyer for you)

  Good tires in the stock 16" size are limited as well.

  Again, these are impressions from helping a friend with his. He isnt that serious of a performance guy, but I have been trying to learn this car to help him.

  formerly known as hotstang

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  July 4, 2011 10:09 a.m. pres589 Dork

  In reply to Apexcarver:

  There's a decade of time between these two experiences but I believe my SN95 convertible is just as stiff as far as chassis flex vs. a friend's '86 IROC. My car squeaks less and has less feeling of the dashboard going one direction while my seat goes another direction while transversing a bump.

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  July 4, 2011 7:14 p.m. plance1 Dork

  Oh back in the day when I worked as a lot tech at Kenny Ross and Sons Chevrolet in Irwin Pa, I remember one of the then, relatively new 350 Z-28's came in on a trade. Of course I had to slap a plate on that baby to, you know, test it. This was the late 80s and the car back then was a serious ride, not as fun as the used buick GN I tested but still, enough fun to remember.

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  July 4, 2011 8:17 p.m. MrBenjamonkey HalfDork

  I always thought it would be fun to buy a 3rd gen with a 3.8 and a 5 speed and then swap in a supercharged 3.8 from a Pontiac or GNT.

  Just a thought.

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  July 4, 2011 9:11 p.m. 81cpcamaro New Reader

  Only one 3rd gen came with a 3.8 and that was the 89 Turbo Trans Am 20th anniversary car. It was a Grand National engine with FWD heads to help it fit between the shock towers. The rest of the V6 models were either 2.8 or 3.1L models.

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  July 4, 2011 11:37 p.m. MrBenjamonkey HalfDork

  Right, it was the 4th gen that had the 3.8.

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  July 5, 2011 1:26 a.m. novaderrik Dork

  you can buy the 3.8 mounts pretty cheap- they are readily available anywhere for some reason (i think they are the same as a G body)..

  finding the factory torque arm mount for the TH200-4r trans they used in the Turbo TA is impossible, tho.. but there are aftermarket companies that have made trans crossmember/torque arm mounts for transmissions that never came in a 3rd gen F body- like a TH350 or TH400 auto or any manual trans you'd ever want.. i'd love to put a built Ford Toploader behind the LT1 i'm swapping into my 86, but i'd settle for a Muncie.

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