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  July 19, 2008 5:23 p.m. Tom Heath Production Editor

  The warm Florida weather makes me wonder why I'm still keeping my Battle Wagon Subaru. Sure, it's fun to Rallycross, but there isn't much call for the beauty of all-wheel drive. Rather than watch it depreciate, I'd like to turn it into a classic that will be worth more in 5 years than it is today.

  Other than a rather sorry example of a 1964 Plymouth Valiant that I once owned, this would be my first vintage car.
  

  Here are my priorities- in order.

  1) Should cost less than the selling price on the Outback. Say $3-4k.
  2) Should seat 4 comfortably—I've already got a turbocharged Miata, so this needs to be able to tote the wife and kids in relative comfort.
  3) Chrome bumpers
  

  My dream list at the moment includes a BMW 2002, 1970s era Mercedes, and Jag XJ-6. Any big, fat, American sedan from the 1950's would also be interesting, especially an oddball like an Edsel.

  What would you suggest?

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  July 19, 2008 7:33 p.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

  A BMW '02 is always a good bet. I've always been meaning to pick one up myself.

  Air cooled VW -- maybe a Type 3 Fastback, squareback, or (if you can find one) notchback.

  Triumph Herald convertible. Top down fun, 4 seats, and you can stuff a Triumph six in there for more go.

  MG 1100/1300 (Big mini)

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  July 19, 2008 10:04 p.m. docsaab New Reader

  do not rule out a corvair,late models are very roomy ,decent on gas, sharp style, and cheap, cheap to buy and run . easy to get parts ,hugh club support,technically advanced for the time and handle like a corvette of the same era. very fun to drive but not a hot rod like a musclecar . checkout www.corvair.org

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  July 20, 2008 4:28 a.m. TR3only New Reader

  If it's your first vintage car, and you are on a tight budget ($3K to $4K), I'd go with a mainstream make that was reasonably popular. But instead of say, a Ford, go for a Mercury. They are a bit flashier and sometimes...but not always, cheaper than the "equivalent" Ford. Or instead of a Chevy, a Buick or Olds/Pontiac.

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  July 20, 2008 5:58 a.m. ddavidv SuperDork

  I think the above advice is very worthy. I'd avoid oddball stuff with little following for more happiness. Things like Opels, for example. Good strong clubs with good parts availability, easy maintenance and good highway manners. This may seem like odd advice coming from a guy with a Mini and a Fiat background.

  Corvair, Mustang, Falcon, are all good values and easy to live with. Anything convertible is an excellent investment but of course comes with more maintenance. Smaller domestics like Skylarks, Tempests, Larks, Ramblers and yes, Valiants can be affordable entry level cars. I would stay in the 1960s with OHV engined cars. Once you get back into the 1950s you start getting into 6v electrics and valve-in-block engines that sometimes have trouble with cooling and so forth.

  BMWs are excellent choices. 2002s are nice but command a premium. You can get a larger, nicer car for not much more if you consider things like Bavarias, though you want to watch parts availability with some of them. The M-B's and Jags can be expensive to fix and can quickly rack up repair bills that will exceed what you paid for it. You've really got to be careful with those. I've looked at 'affordable' M-B's myself but, while sturdy cars, can have some components that will just absolutely break you should they fail. And, the performance of the older ones isn't usually that spectacular.

  I recommend you go to car shows and talk to as many owners as you can about cars that may even just remotely interest you. Take your spouse too, if she'll tolerate it, and get some idea what cars she is attracted to. You will find when your partner thinks something is 'cool' he/she will be less likely to complain when you buy it/fix it. My wife is a fan of all 3 of my current play cars and helped me decide on the Mini over some other choices.

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  July 20, 2008 8:25 p.m. Tom Heath Production Editor

  Good advice, all. After considering it, M-B and Jag do seem prone to causing financial ruin.

  To be honest, I have a hankering for something domestic. I had considered a Corvair, but there's already a sweet Corvair project in the works, so I'm looking for something else. The problem with domestics to me is that I couldn't leave a V-8 alone. Soon enough, it would have a lumpy cam and cheater slicks, which aren't likely to do much for the collector value or my wife's mood.

  A Bavaria might be very cool, and I'd never really considered Opel, other than a GT.

  Still open to any suggestions!

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  July 20, 2008 9:04 p.m. mattmacklind PowerDork

  If you are willing to go a little newer, the MB W123 models are great, not too expensive on the components and very sturdy. Not a great performer (read porpoise), but still "classic" in a sense and definitley good as a family driver.

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  July 20, 2008 9:21 p.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

  Tom, I've been jonesing for a Bavaria ever since I wrote the article on 'em years ago. Hard to find a good one, but they're really, really nice. If you're in the mood for a big six, the 6-series have about bottomed out by now, and they're pretty easy to find.

  There's several small-ish Mopars I could see myself in, and I have a suspicion that a slant six would take to a supercharger like beans to cornbread.

  My beef with most domestics is that they're just too big and thirsty, but there's a lot going for them, too.

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  July 21, 2008 10:10 a.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

  W123 Benzes are cool. A good friend's parents had one, MB Tex and everything. Biodiesel 300D?

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  July 21, 2008 10:13 a.m. TR3only New Reader

  My beef with domestics, and really about the only one...after all, I already recommended them, is the "wooly" steering. With power steering, most American cars from the sixties have no steering feel/steering feedback and older American cars often don't have power steering...but seriously need it.

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  July 21, 2008 10:53 a.m. wetpossum New Reader

  Datsun 510? Like a Japanese 2002.
  

  Also, maybe a Mercedes 450 SLC. A friend just gave one away with a perfect rust and dent-free body that just needed a tranny rebuild. Unfortunately, he traded his Ferrari 275 GTB for the car back in the 70's. Not too good of an investment, but he had a Ferrari that he could not afford to repair and he walked out of the dealership with a brand new Mercedes V8 Coupe. I guess at the time it was a good thing to do.

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  July 21, 2008 12:03 p.m. rconlon Reader

  I would consider going oddball to keep in your tight budget. Think in terms of cool not classic. Mid 80's cars are going this way and have modern A/C for comfort. Mustang Fox body is an example or a Volvo. A nice K-car would be rare to see these days.

  Cheers Ron

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  July 21, 2008 4:09 p.m. Gary Reader

  Volvo PV544 (looks like a '46 Ford) Volvo 122S 2-door, 4-door or wagon

  They're still inexpensive, they're well built and easy to work on, parts are reasonably cheap, they can be modified pretty easily, and most of all they're really cool, especially the 544.

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  July 22, 2008 9:08 a.m. Ian F New Reader

  I second an older Volvo 122 if 4-passenger hauling is needed. Inexpensive. Easy to work on. Parts are pretty cheap and easy to get. Performance bits are available to make them handle pretty well. About the only down-side as a "cruising" car is the lack of power steering. The low speed steering effort required for parking and whatnot is not to be underestimated.

  I would not touch an older Benz with a 10-foot pole... especially in this price-range. We recently had to do work on a '83 300SD (turbodiesel)... parts costs will eat you alive and they are very unfriendly for the DIY'er (more than a few specialized tools and piss-poor service manual availability). The only way I'd do a Benz would be to gut it and do a hot-rod conversion (V8, suspension, interior, etc) to remove as much of the "German" as possible.

  Second comment about a diesel Benz... they are freakin' SLOW. Azz-dragging slow... 0-60 takes 30 seconds (not kidding here). I really wanted to love these cars, but my recent experience has seriously soured my opinion...

  Keep in mind that any older car you get will require much more regular service than your Outback. This sounds fine in principle, but you may find yourself cursing when you have to adjust the carbs on a rainy night prior to long trip.

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  July 22, 2008 1:01 p.m. Tom Heath Production Editor

  Volvos are starting to sound pretty good, but the Bavaria is much better looking. I think either would likely fit the bill. Thanks for all of the suggestions!

  After the next rallycross event on August 3rd I'll be ready to put the Outback on craigslist. After that, it will come down to where I can find a good deal before my assets magically transform into Miata parts. I'll keep you posted on my progress.

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  July 22, 2008 7:20 p.m. docsaab New Reader

  I should also chime in with a 64-66 studebaker challenger. it is like a chevy II but cooler .light weight came with gm 6 or 283 v8 and are usually found for less than 2,000$ noone wants them ,I don't know why . great little car but can carry 6 people.parts and club easily at hand . I loved my 62 dodge lancer gt with the aluminum slant 6 I want it back .great handling no power steering averaged 22mpg with an offy 2 carb intake and auto trans .

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  July 22, 2008 9:01 p.m. JEric None

  Volvo 142 There are 3 for sale on turbobricks right now. I love mine, lowered billys recaro seats fun car to drive cheap parts and fits wife and kids for cruise. And for some reason little kids seem to love it not sure why, fun car and differant Jeric

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  July 22, 2008 9:18 p.m. JoeTR6 New Reader

  I've been wanting to find a 1973 Capri for many years. My parents had one when I was in junior high. I remember my mom driving it to pick up me and my two brothers up after school. It was a fairly small car, but comfortable and sporty. Pre-smog pump German built V6, interesting styling, and 1973 was about the end of the line for good looking chrome bumpers. I would imagine a non-rusty example would blow your budget out of the water, but maybe someone's grandmother kept one in a dry barn somewhere...

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  July 23, 2008 12:27 a.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

  http://daytona.craigslist.org/car/762449595.html

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  July 23, 2008 10:48 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

  Thanks David

  someone links to craigslist and bam there goes 15 minutes.

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  July 23, 2008 3:26 p.m. TR3only New Reader

  JoeTR3... finding a clean, rust-free Capri isn't easy. I had a '73 4 cylinder back in the mid '90s and when I got it the car was relatively rust-free and barely roadworthy...all for less than $600. I didn't get around to painting it quickly enough, tho, and the thin lime green paint job soon developed the typical Capri rust. Unfortunately, because these cars were priced only a few hundred dollars over a Pinto when new, they were sent to the crusher by folks who just wanted their next transportation "module".
  

  BTW, at 6ft 4 I didn't really fit in the driver's seat of a Capri. My sister had a '74 V6 that I all but begged her to buy new. I prefer the 4 cylinder cars, much nore fun to drive, in my opinion.

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